Rank: Super forum user 
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I'm surprised this isn't a topic on this forum as it is down to health and safety but no one really mentions H&S while discussing it.
This is a really massive safety issue, affecting the whole world, flights both in and out of the UK from all corners of the globe, but I don't see much blame, if any being put on our profession.
Most reports do occasionally mention the word "safety" but there is no "blame" whatsoever put on H&S.
It's almost as if everybody accepts the enormity of the situation.
It's different of course when a child falls over in the school playground or a certain newspaper goes into "conkers bonkers" and decides to print something adverse about us.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Chris - I think the criticism will start shortly.
I understand France and Germany are preparing to fly and test how bad the contamination actually is. If they decide it low risk, then the critics will be slating the over catious response regarding safety issues.
But its a bit like sampling with the dreiger tubes - it only tells you what was there at the time of the sample and did you sample the heaviest contaminated area?
I certainly would not want tyo fly at the moment!
But someone somewhere will be putting together an argument that it is safe to fly
David
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Rank: Super forum user
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It will probable go down to what the insurance will or won't cover!
Linda
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Rank: New forum user
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If this situation continues (and history says it could last for weeks), we will have to start flying cargo into the UK. It may become necessary for a few to take rather large risks to feed a population that cannot grow enough food at home to sustain itself.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I was looking at the sky tv news this afternoon, it looks now as if people are fed up and becoming impatient, I think it is too risky to get passengers up in the sky, what if planes started falling from the sky? (Don't you just love "what ifs"?
I think the only things going up will be prices.
The guy who rescued people from Calais, good on him I say! At least it was the French that banned him from returning.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Rank: Super forum user
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Linda XC wrote:It will probably go down to what the insurance will or won't cover!
Linda
Doesn't it always Linda... But do Insurers get the blame? - No, that's the job of Health & Scapegoat.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Yosser, thanks for spoiling my weekend, yes I missed this but I rarely read newspapers, unless Everton have played well and won :-)
I had a look, read some scanned some more and ignored the rest, just what we all should do with the Mail.
It now looks like there will be a review of the risk assessment due to the complaints from the money grabbing fly companies, probably leading to some flights taking off? When out and about don't forget to look up as that's where gravity will provide the biggest hazards.
What about the excellent film footage of the eruption - is that lightning I see among the smoke/dust/steam?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Scottie Dalmore wrote:If this situation continues (and history says it could last for weeks), we will have to start flying cargo into the UK. It may become necessary for a few to take rather large risks to feed a population that cannot grow enough food at home to sustain itself.
Its just as well that I dug up half the lawn a month ago to start growing my own veg. Now who wants a claim on my lettuces? They're coming quite well at the moment ....
Sticking my enviro hat on, when 9/11 occured the US banned all flights over their airspace for a week. Scientists recorded a noted drop in pollution, so my question is how much of a drop will there be in our skies volcanic ash aside? Any pollution experts out there.
Badger
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Rank: Super forum user 
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“It took five days to organise a conference call with the ministers of transport. Europeans are still using a system that's based on a theoretical model, instead of taking a decision based on facts and risk assessment.
"This decision (to close airspace) has to be based on facts and supported by risk assessment. We need to replace this blanket approach with a practical approach."
So there are those who see risk assessment as the process to allow something to happen rather than to ban it.
http://www.telegraph.co....sssing-say-airlines.html
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Rank: Forum user
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I'm not sure if it was previously scheduled to be shown before the eruption, but I caught the end of an Air Crash Investigation programme at the weekend shown on National Geographic. Whilst I can't link to the prgramme, perhaps anyone advocating flying again right now should review this and re-assess:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...British_Airways_Flight_9
I know this link is Wikipedia, but it does corroborate what I watched on Sunday - note the 'aftermath' which reports Aircraft still having engine shutdowns 19 days AFTER........
I fear this is going to go on for a while yet, unless the Airlines get their way and the £ signs cloud judgement.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Scottie appears to have highlighted a problem that so far I haven't heard aired on TV/Radio: we need air-freighted food to feed ourselves.
Whilst my taste for Aussie Shiraz and Chilean Merlot may be satisfied by making do with English beer, it's a bit early for UK lamb and beef to be sufficiently available to go on my barbecue and my morning toast generally has Danish butter beneath the Marmite and the orange juice is not locally sourced. And what of our favourite dish, Chicken Tikka Massala? We don't grow rice here, we don't grow the spices here and most factory or low-end restaurant produced chicken dishes use imported chicken.
Perfectly OK when the skies are full of planes...
We're all doomed!
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Personally I though nearly all our food came in by boat; air-freight only carries small quantities of high-value stuff. Air-freight is very expensive and can't do big volumes, which is why Boeing sold very small numbers of the freight version of the Jumbo (the bulge with the captain is on top to allow the nose to open for freight to be loaded.
Go to an airport and count the planes taking off (not today, obviously!!!); they'll nearly all be passenger carriers, with the occasional DHL or some such carrying high value stuff,
John
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Rank: Super forum user
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Barrie(Badger)Etter wrote:Its just as well that I dug up half the lawn a month ago to start growing my own veg. Now who wants a claim on my lettuces? They're coming quite well at the moment ....
Well if were going to be complete doom-mongers the problem is when the inevitable acid precipitation follows, your succulent lettuce (and all the other spring crops) are toast. Only the scavengers will survive, just like 65 MYA.
Have a nice day.
;-)
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Rank: Super forum user
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ChrisBurns wrote:
Yosser, thanks for spoiling my weekend, yes I missed this but I rarely read newspapers, unless Everton have played well and won :-)
I had a look, read some scanned some more and ignored the rest, just what we all should do with the Mail.
It now looks like there will be a review of the risk assessment due to the complaints from the money grabbing fly companies, probably leading to some flights taking off? When out and about don't forget to look up as that's where gravity will provide the biggest hazards.
What about the excellent film footage of the eruption - is that lightning I see among the smoke/dust/steam?
Commiserations for the Everton part Chris...(spot the red)
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Rank: New forum user
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Going back to the point in the first post I see in the poll associated with the Littlejohn article only 23% think the airspace closure is an over reaction.
Having said that, when considering the focus on the BA 747 in 1982 you need to remember that in that case the flight went through a plume very close to the volcano itself and so the probability of a high consequence event was high.
It would be interesting to see a more risk focused discussion. Clearly the red line on the London VAAC chart http://metoffice.com/aviation/vaac/vaacuk_vag.html is not a boundary between safe flight and disaster.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Scottie Dalmore wrote:If this situation continues (and history says it could last for weeks), we will have to start flying cargo into the UK. It may become necessary for a few to take rather large risks to feed a population that cannot grow enough food at home to sustain itself.
Errr, and what is wrong with using marine transport - cheaper per ton, greener, can carry more ....
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Rank: Super forum user
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andye wrote:
Having said that, when considering the focus on the BA 747 in 1982 you need to remember that in that case the flight went through a plume very close to the volcano itself and so the probability of a high consequence event was high.
Try looking at the actual damage this week, not over twenty years ago:
http://www.flightglobal....effects-of-volcanic.html
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Rank: Super forum user
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andye wrote:Going back to the point in the first post I see in the poll associated with the Littlejohn article only 23% think the airspace closure is an over reaction.
Having said that, when considering the focus on the BA 747 in 1982 you need to remember that in that case the flight went through a plume very close to the volcano itself and so the probability of a high consequence event was high.
It would be interesting to see a more risk focused discussion. Clearly the red line on the London VAAC chart http://metoffice.com/aviation/vaac/vaacuk_vag.html is not a boundary between safe flight and disaster.
Fair point Andy, but how many "experts" are their on volcanic ash/jet engine/meteorology interactions.
It strikes me as a very specialist subject and certainly one that neither vulcanologists, aeronautical engineers or meterologists can answer alone.
...So if anyone out there was expecting an answer from a generalist website such as this, then sorry to disappoint.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Yossarian
I am slightly shocked when some of our readers admit to looking at the Daily Mail.
I don't get these stupid stories in the Grauniad or Sunday Herald.
P
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Rank: Forum user
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I have search for the Graunaid I thought it was a French Newspaper. ooops!! am also amased you dont all read lethgrape, presexs, or rorrmi !!!:):)
wizard
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Rank: Super forum user
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Well if were going to be complete doom-mongers the problem is when the inevitable acid precipitation follows, your succulent lettuce (and all the other spring crops) are toast. Only the scavengers will survive, just like 65 MYA.
Have a nice day.
;-)
Yosser
Sorry to disappoint you, the lettuce crop is under cloches protected from the acid rain and the theiving birds along with all the other tender leaf crop.
65 MYA - no understand pls explain?
Badger
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Rank: Forum user
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OK, so nobody actually cares, but according to the BBC today only 1% of Tesco's food comes in by air, so it looks as though your Chorizo, Quail's egg and Sweet Potato chips breakfast is safe,
John
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Ah the old safety arguement. The truth is they could plan to fly above or below the affected area, but it also comes down to the old fall back - money. To fly at the lower altitudes increases fuel consumption and increases carbon emissions. To fly above more money to get to the height. Whist I can see a "safety" argument, as they say, carry out a risk assessment.They will be damned if they do fly and something happens and presently being damned for not flying.
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Rank: Super forum user
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And to add to that, the local CG helicopter did a medivac last Friday - helicopter is still awaiting spare parts to repair the damage caused (in a genuine life-or-death situation they believe they could achieve one more run).
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Colin - can you offer more info on the local CG helicopter and the problems they discovered afterwards?
David
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Rank: Super forum user
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I don't understand the helicopter story. The ash is supposed to be between 5 & 8 miles up, CG helicopters fly well under that height, more like 500 - 800 feet, and nobody has said anything about banning flights at that sort of level. There were certainly light aircraft and microlights buzzing about all the last week, and our local CG Chopper has been over the house enough times to be mildly annoying (would be very annoying but I know it has to do what is a very good and fairly awful job),
John
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Thanks for the information Colin. Makes interesting reading when you think of the amount of N Sea transfers coming up.
JWK - it was reported that the ash had been settling to the ground in Shetland last week - so looks like there is no safe flying height if the dust is on its way up, or coming down again.
David
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John
I can only report what happened! However, bear in mind that Shetland is some 460 miles from Yorkshire and is closer to Iceland than it is to London - just over 600 miles to each!
Whilst all UK airports are now open, Shetland and Orkney have just been closed again. Different area, different results!
As to last Thursday when it all started, the whole of Shetland could smell the eruption (thought the sewage tank had overflowed!!). We have experienced a lot of dust at ground level.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Fair enough, sounds like you did have a lot of low-level ash,
John
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