We are holding a public event in the not too distant future. We have made the stance that mobility scooters will not be allowed on site due to the possibility of damage to the building (listed status) and the possibility of damage to goods on display, and the interaction between mobilty scooter and pedestrians;we are expecting upwards of 2000 people on site. Wheel chairs are permitted and we have the facility to get the wheelchairs up small flights of stairs (6 steps) using ramps, we also have disabled toilet facilities.

I have had a telephone call from an irrate member of the public stating that we are discriminating against disabled people, I believe we have made "reasonable adjustments".

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

regards

Tony

I agree with Chris on this. If you can cope with a wheel chair then a scooter should be able to be accepted too. One 'reasonable adjustment' would be to comment on any restricted widths ie doorways that a scooter may not be able to get through.

How about a speed limit on the site whereby scooters are not allowed to overtake pedestrians?

It's a tricky one and you need to phrase any ban to ensure that you are making reasonable adjustments

Some may not have wheelchairs and now only use scooters. I think you really need to review your plans.

How can you justify your decision to ban mobility scooters on the grounds that they could damage the building or goods?

Are you also banning children, who, by their very nature like to touch and feel things on a day out?

I feel that the member of public is right to be aggrieved and you are in fact discriminating against not just disabled but elderly or infirm members of the public who rely on their scooters for their independence.

I guess you are having an open day at a military site, if you rely on buses to take people to the site then you'll be limited as to what you can get on a bus anyway, only the smallest mobility scooters and wheelchairs are going to get on a bus.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/tr...ryou/access/tipws/cmspt/

If people with disabilities are allowed to drive to the site then they will only have lightweight scooters or wheelchairs available in the boot, if someone uses a class 3 vehicle (a big mobility scooter) to get to the site, then you are being entirely reasonable in requiring these larger vehicles to be used outdoors only, and have available a couple of wheelchairs for these people to use.

You may wish to research the different types of mobility scooters and plan accordingly, they arent all the same, it is sensible to restrict use of some, whilst also allowing use of others.

Thanks very much for the link. I have limited knowledge/experience of individuals within the workplace who have mobility problems and will be researching this area to broaden my knowledge. In the workplace are mobility scooters now used more than wheelchairs and if so what issue do both users and employers face?

Regards Tony

251 pages - has anyone read them all yet?

Is there an ACOP?

If I can't get my boot scooter onto your bus there will be a complaint unless you can prove an exemption as you are a military establishment.

I just think it's great that someone asks a question and then we all learn about a new set of Regs. (I should get to page 251 about the middle of August???????????)

Martin, thanks for the info re the regs.

I use a scooter on occasions when there is more than a short distance to go and, as you say can park up and walk around a small shop, standing is my biggest problem so I sit whenever I can.

The scooter gives me the freedom to visit places otherwise not possible for me, like football matches and the town centre. I am lucky in that respect, where the loo is concerned I don't have to drive in but do if possible as I don't trust leaving the scooter outside unattended. if I have shopping with me I have to carry it into from the scooter, imagine that - put your shopping bags down on a toilet floor if you will?

There is more than on type of scooter, an 8mph version is made for road use and is the larger type with lights, indicators etc. Mine comes apart to fit in the boot, tortoise pace is as fast as I can travel.

The biggest problem I experience when in crowds is I seem to be invisible, people do not look down and tend to walk into me, as opposed to me driving into them.

I do have a disability - that's why I have the scooter, and should be allowed access to anywhere non disabled people are allowed, including public transport.

Here we go ask for information and everyone jumps down his throat, or plays the I'm disabled card and I'll sue. The person was asking was it reasonable? Sometimes we have to look at what is and what isn't. Maybe it is felt that the mobility scooters are more risky not just to people but to the fabric of the building and the 'are you letting children in' remark isn't the same, as someone whizzing around a small area hitting people in the ankles. I may attend and if anyone in a mobility chair hits me in the ankles the 'i'll sue' as I believe that the place has a duty of care to me.

How many of you know the building in question? It may be reasonable to allow a wheelchair but not a mobility scooter.

Ensure the ramps are suitable because some power chairs are very heavy.

Perhaps you could consider providing stewards to push manual wheelchairs around the premises. Just an idea.

I'll meet you on the summit of Scafell in September. Good luck getting up there.

I don't mean that anywhere near as harshly as it sounds, but I agree with the point I think Farrell was trying to make - the OP has an event going on, because of the constraints of the building they can't make it accessible to absolutely everyone but it certainly sounds like they've done their best and made reasonable adjustments. If we're not careful the outcome is going to be that organisations like the OPs simply won't arrange open days for anyone, just in case there's someone they can't give access to. If that happens, no-one gains and a substantial number of people lose.



One of my weekend activities is driving a minibus for the local church: We have a wheelchair lift onto the bus, and securing straps for the wheelchair and seatbelts designed to be suitable for the wheelchair user - but our standard instructions (provided by the organisation from whom the church borrows the minibus) state that we DON'T carry mobility scooters OR certain types of wheelchair, as the scooters can't be adequately restrained and in wheelchairs not designed for transportation, the seat belts don't work safely. The larger type 3 scooters couldn't even be loaded as they're too heavy for the lift.

What's the solution? As I've said above, if the minibus owners are forced to make their transport accessible for everyone and every type of chair, they'll simply withdraw it and it won't be available for anyone. No-one wins, and a number of people who currently rely on the service to get around will lose out.

I don't know why the USA can do it and we can't, but I'd start by asking, were the chairs and scooters restrained (i.e. strapped down or prevented from moving in some way other than just using the brakes), and were all the wheelchair users wearing seat belts? If not, there's the answer - US law regarding minibus passengers being strapped in seems to be different to UK.

Second question - I don't know as I'm not the administrator of the scheme - there may be some who've asked and been turned away, but if there are I don't know about them. We used to have a regular passenger who was a scooter user, when the situation was explained she just used her ordinary wheelchair on church days, with the assistance of people from the church. She's moved away from the area now, I don't know what her new church do.


I think as health and safety people we ALL get angry when we see things automatically banned without consideration. But the flip side of that coin is an expectation that - as you said - ALL areas will be accessible to everyone, if they're accessible to anyone. Sometimes that provision is only possible (if it's possible at all) at huge expense financially and organisationally, and
a) unreasonable for an organisation planning a one-off open day, even if they could afford it
b) completely beyond the resources of a community organisation.

They appear to have considered it but because it's not acceptable to some it's not right or fair. I am not disabled so to be perfectly honest don't know all the implications, maybe a little bit further and invite someone in ina mobilitiy chair and make an assessment from there.

Health and Safety is about anticipating a problem anb putting what we consider reasonable controls in place.

As said earlier I am not disabled but I have had reason to complain when put in a hotel room that was designated for disabled persons. I didn't feel it was suitable for able bodied people, or not suitable for me.

There must bbe away that all aspects can be addressed prior to coming to a conclusion.

I agree but what do you put first peoples rights or peoples safety. If you put more people at risk than you offend then sometimes you have to make that choice. What I am saying if you have not considered all options by having persons in mobility scooters prior to opening and assessing then it's difficult to come to the right conclusion.