This may be of interest to some of you, it is the verdict of the trial of the death of a 14 year old boy on a school caving trip in north Yorkshire.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...th_yorkshire/8693433.stm

It happened close to my home, and as a Father whose child did a similar course while at school a few years ago (though not with this outdoor centre) and having been a school governor for may years, who approved of these type of these types of activities I have followed the case as much as I could in newspaper and Internet reports. My sympathies go to the parents, I cannot imagine how I would have felt had this been my child, but the jury has decided no offence was committed.

Brian

Quite agree.

Life is a risk.


I'm also local, both of my sons have been to this facility as part of their school activities and had a really great time.

We can't stop kids taking risks- in fact I want my kids to do so - but alsoto learn how to make sensible risk decisons without being paranoid, so that they can enjoy life. Part of that learning involves being put into 'risky' situations.

Welcome back Clairel

It is difficult to comment on whether the jury made the right decision without knowing some more material facts. If the boy died due to an 'unforeseeable' event, then it was probably the right decision. However, I sympathise with the Mother who commented "You don't expect your child to go on a school trip and never come back."

I wonder if the school still do caving trips at this location? I accept that life is about experience and taking risks, but it could now be argued that the cave under certain circumstances may be too risky. If trips still occur, have the school put in extra interventions to ensure a similar tragedy does not occur? After all, the key argument that the fatality occurred due to an unforeseeable event does not carry the same weight.

Claire

Thanks for the response. You evidently have more knowledge on this matter than I. Whilst it may not have been a school organised event I would have thought there was an onus on the school to ensure the organisers were competent etc. Not suggesting they are not competent either. That said, we often put forward the argument that accidents don't just happen, they are often the result of poor planning, training, supervision and so on.

I feel uneasy about an event which ends in a fatality, particularly a vulnerable young person. I can't help but think some intervention could have been in place to prevent this tragedy. Not knowing anything about caving it is difficult to put forward any controls, except I have seen a rope attached to to each person in order to ensure no one strays from the group; as appears to have happened in this case.

There would be some onus on the school; I would think that was explored by HSE. It would seem the school is a community school in North Yorkshire. Therefore, as employer there too, it would still have been N Yorks CC that was prosecuted.

Ron

I think if you look at more of the reports you will find that the cause of the flash flooding in the cave was water blowing over a dam. I don’t think there was any rainfall in the area, or on the flood plain for the cave, which could have caused the event. These type of events I believe, that had been included in the risk assessments, and it was partly why the cave was considered suitable for novices/children.

The HSE argued that water coming over the Dam was foreseeable, I believe NYCC argued that it was such a “freak” event that had never been know to happen before (i.e. combination of height of water behind dam, wind speed/direction etc) that it was nor foreseeable. The jury obviously agreed with NYCC.

I have very little experience of caving (one weekend trip) but have been involved in other outdoor “adventure” sports; I have even been a professional SCUBA instructor. In any of these events you plan as meticulously as you can, but Mother Nature can always throw a spanner in the works. The only way to prevent “unforeseeable” accidents in these kinds of activities is to ban them altogether, is that sensible risk assessment?

As I said when I started this email I cannot imagine the anguish this must cause the parents, and my deepest sympathies go to the family but the verdict is not guilty of an H&S offence.

Brian

As Brian rightly said the flooding of the cave was caused by extreme winds blowing unusually high water levels over the damn. That cave is used all the time as a training cave and it was not an event that had occured before. It was not forseeable.

You cannot forsee all events especially with outdoor sports. You can put a kid on a the most steady horse but there is never a guarantee that the horse won't spook and bolt. You can never guarantee that a tyre won't burst on a bike when going downhill. Things do happen, you take reasonable precuautions but there are never guarantees.

Ron would not be welcome in my community of outdoor friends as his attitude is unrealistic and does nothing by promoting risk aversion and the attitude that it is better not to let kids do anything in case they get hurt.

However Ron, I notice that you are inconsistent in your approach. Your approach in this instance is very hardlined and yet I quote part of your response from another thread:

"I would say though that there has to be a recognition here of "there but for the grace of God....". We all get it wrong sometimes, and that 'sometimes' might just coincide with a HSE visit. Or not."

So which is it Ron, there but for the grace of god we all make mistakes or everyone should elimiate all risk at anytime?

Please could we remind forum-users to be mindful of the forum rules (see the tab above the forums)? In particular, please avoid giving offense to others.

Jane