Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Laura77  
#1 Posted : 07 June 2010 12:31:37(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Laura77

Hi I work in theatre and our lighting desk is situated in a room in the auditorium with no ventilation and no Air Con.
In summer we reach 30/32 D C We asked our employer to install a Air Con unit but we have been told that there isn't a regulation that state the Max temperature we are safe to work in.
Any advice?
PhilBeale  
#2 Posted : 07 June 2010 12:38:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

try a search on the subject in the forums but unless things have changed then no there is no maximum working temperature. But equally they can't tell you to put up with it they have to manage the situation. if they are not willing to install air con although buying a cheap DIY ones or hiring one doesn't seem unreasonable especially if it's only during extreme weather. then they should look at providing rest bite from the situation where you can come out of the room to a rest area on a regular basis to re-hydrate and cool down. I'm sure other will be along but try the HSE website as there may be some usefull information on there specific to this issue.

try getting a price for a cheap diy air con unit from a diy store and show him the costs it might cost less than he expected.

Phil
SimonR  
#3 Posted : 07 June 2010 13:33:19(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
SimonR

Laura77
There is an HSE Information Sheet called "Heat stress in the workplace. What you need to know as an employer". I would advise your employer to read it. You can get to it via a Google of "UK hot working" and go to the HSE link.
Simon
jay  
#4 Posted : 07 June 2010 13:46:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Refer to the HSE information at:-
http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/thermal/faq.htm
http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/index.htm

It is unlikely that the temperatures you have indicated will cause "heat stress". Heat stress occurs when the body’s means of controlling its internal temperature starts to fail.

Twinklemel  
#5 Posted : 07 June 2010 15:45:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Twinklemel

Laura - I'd reiterate what Jay said - go to http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/thermal/faq.htm

If attempts to get your employer to act reasonably fail, then consider approaching an Environmental Heatlh Officer at your local authority to get them to assist, as they will be responsible for the enforcement of H&S legislation in your workplace.

PhilBeale - I have to ask - what's rest bite???
Barrie(Badger)Etter  
#6 Posted : 07 June 2010 18:29:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Barrie(Badger)Etter

Laura
From the HSE website ....
What is the maximum/minimum temperature in the workplace?
The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 lay down particular requirements for most aspects of the working environment

Regulation 7 of these Regulations deals specifically with the temperature in indoor workplaces and states that:

During working hours, the temperature in all workplaces inside buildings shall be reasonable.

However, the application of the regulation depends on the nature of the workplace i.e. a bakery, a cold store, an office, a warehouse.

The associated ACOP goes on to explain:

'The temperature in workrooms should provide reasonable comfort without the need for special clothing. Where such a temperature is impractical because of hot or cold processes, all reasonable steps should be taken to achieve a temperature which is as close as possible to comfortable. 'Workroom' means a room where people normally work for more than short periods.

The temperature in workrooms should normally be at least 16 degrees Celsius unless much of the work involves severe physical effort in which case the temperature should be at least 13 degrees Celsius. These temperatures may not, however, ensure reasonable comfort, depending on other factors such as air movement and relative humidity.'

Where the temperature in a workroom would otherwise be uncomfortably high, for example because of hot processes or the design of the building, all reasonable steps should be taken to achieve a reasonably comfortable temperature, for example by:

insulating hot plants or pipes;
providing air-cooling plant;
shading windows;
siting workstations away from places subject to radiant heat.
Where a reasonably comfortable temperature cannot be achieved throughout a workroom, local cooling should be provided. In extremely hot weather fans and increased ventilation may be used instead of local cooling.

Where, despite the provision of local cooling, workers are exposed to temperatures which do not give reasonable comfort, suitable protective clothing and rest facilities should be provided. Where practical there should be systems of work (for example, task rotation) to ensure that the length of time for which individual workers are exposed to uncomfortable temperatures is limited.

References
L24, Workplace health, safety and welfare, (ISBN 0717604136 - available from HSE Books)
Thermal comfort microsite

Note the bit on providing air con and making things reasonably comfortable. Perhaps throw a phone call to HSE with a suggestion to visit you on a hot day may also help.

Hope this helps

Badger
Clairel  
#7 Posted : 07 June 2010 19:13:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Twinklemel wrote:


PhilBeale - I have to ask - what's rest bite???



I think he meant 'respite'.


Badger the HSE will not go visiting on hot day. Do you realise how many calls they get in hot weather from people saying "I'm too hot, what you gonna do about it"?

I used to say - "not a lot". To be honest I was just as hot as an inspector sat in my Government office with no air conditioning either. They wouldn't even give us fans.

Unless it really is ridiculously hot due to work processes then there is nothing they can do. All your employer has to do is what is reasonable and in a country where very hot weather is rare they cannot reasonably be expected to put in air conditioning for the several days a year when it gets too hot. And to be honest for every person that wants that air conditoning there will be another that moans about the air conditioning becuase it's too cold or it dries the air out etc etc.

Access to cold drinking water and fans if possible. What else do you reasonably expect?

To be honest I get a little fed up of people constantly wanting a perfect temperature in their working environment. The same people who are too hot in summer are then too cold in winter. Wear appropriate clothing for the weather and drink appropriate fluids for the temperature.

I'm sure I'll get shot down in flames for this reponse but you know what I'm being realistic!

jay  
#8 Posted : 07 June 2010 20:09:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

I feel that providing fans in some situations is reasonably practicable, as it provides air movement that increases evaporation rate -fans are relatively inexpensive compared to air-con. You state there is no ventilation-do you mean forced ventilation -can you elaborate.

Clairel, I am not aware in my significant experience people wanting "perfect temperature", (have worked inm a local authority too!) and accept that the comfort temperature varies between individuals, but a working environment without natural or forced "air movement" adequate to create evaporative cooling with temperatures in the low thirties is not comfortable by most standards. Our buildings are designed to keep the heat in. Add to that the requirement to keep fire doors closed unless you have fire alarm activated ones, a simple means of opening windows and doors etc to facilitate cross ventilation becomes a challenge!

However, 30 degrees C is nothing compared to 45 degrees C in summer in many parts of the world, yes, without the ait conditioning, but most places have at least ceiling fans !




firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 07 June 2010 20:28:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Guess what Clairel-I agree with what you say re people wanting perfect conditions.

There are far too many employees whinging about working conditions instead of appreciating the fact they have a job.

DHM  
#10 Posted : 08 June 2010 08:39:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DHM

I'm with Clairel on this one too. Are there not other more significant hazards in their workplace that need to be addressed?
Barrie(Badger)Etter  
#11 Posted : 08 June 2010 08:56:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Barrie(Badger)Etter

Clariel
Re - Do you realise how many calls they get in hot weather from people saying "I'm too hot, what you gonna do about it"?

Accept what you are saying

Jay
Re - I feel that providing fans in some situations is reasonably practicable, as it provides air movement that increases evaporation rate -fans are relatively inexpensive compared to air-con.
It's the evaporation that concerns me. A fan in the situation of the posting would only end up pushing hot air from one side of the cubical to the other and not cooling.

Chirs
Re - There are far too many employees whinging about working conditions instead of appreciating the fact they have a job.
Granted having a job these days is a good thing, but not everyone can withstand higher than normal soggy british weather, hence calls for 'better' working temps.


And Finally ...
Why was my posting cut? There wasn't anything deflamatory etc contained within it as it came direct from the HSE's website and answered the original question, Moderators please elucudate.


Badger
Moderator 2  
#12 Posted : 08 June 2010 09:03:04(UTC)
Rank: Moderator
Moderator 2

Barrie(Badger)Etter wrote:

And Finally ...
Why was my posting cut? There wasn't anything deflamatory etc contained within it as it came direct from the HSE's website and answered the original question, Moderators please elucudate.


Badger


Please look in your PM box for an explanation, posted about an hour ago. Please do not post queries to the Mods on the forums.
Jane

Edited by user 08 June 2010 09:05:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

firesafety101  
#13 Posted : 08 June 2010 09:19:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Its cloudy, a bit dull, and raining today - any complaints?
Dazzling Puddock  
#14 Posted : 08 June 2010 09:39:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dazzling Puddock

I had forgotten we are still living in the Victorian era!!

If over a certain number of staff are complaining about the lack of reasonable temperature then a thermal risk assessment should be carried out.

Being lucky to have a job is irrelevant, you have a job because your employer needs you!!

Lack of ventilation/ air movement can be sorted for a few quid and are hardly going to bankrupt the company!!
Garfield Esq  
#15 Posted : 08 June 2010 11:02:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Garfield Esq

Dazzling Puddock wrote:
I had forgotten we are still living in the Victorian era!!

If over a certain number of staff are complaining about the lack of reasonable temperature then a thermal risk assessment should be carried out.

Being lucky to have a job is irrelevant, you have a job because your employer needs you!!

Lack of ventilation/ air movement can be sorted for a few quid and are hardly going to bankrupt the company!![ I understand where your comong from, however employees need a job just as much as employers need them - Oh and I don't think being lucky is "irrelevent" :).]
ptaylor14  
#16 Posted : 08 June 2010 11:21:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

Dazzling Puddock wrote:
I had forgotten we are still living in the Victorian era!!

If over a certain number of staff are complaining about the lack of reasonable temperature then a thermal risk assessment should be carried out.

Being lucky to have a job is irrelevant, you have a job because your employer needs you!!

Lack of ventilation/ air movement can be sorted for a few quid and are hardly going to bankrupt the company!!


WELL SAID THAT PERSON!!!!!
Perhaps we shouldnt complain about having adequate PPE after all we`re lucky to have jobs.
In fact we are so lucky that we should be grateful for employers trying to kill and maim workers considering what it cost to clean up the mess.
Just off to stick a few kids up chimneys, that`ll stop em complaining about heat!!!
Garfield Esq  
#17 Posted : 08 June 2010 11:27:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Garfield Esq

I don't think that 30 degrees now and then is likely to cause much killing or maiming...
Paul Duell  
#18 Posted : 08 June 2010 11:52:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Paul Duell

Clairel wrote:
I'm sure I'll get shot down in flames for this response but you know what I'm being realistic!



Not by me you won't!

I used to work in a bread bakery - at the risk of sounding like a "Monty Python Yorkshireman", we used to dream of 30 degrees in summer! Having said that, in a room without A/C I wouldn't think a fan was unreasonable.

To the OP - what is generating the heat in your cubicle, and does it need to be in there? If you've got computers and amplifiers in there, could they be moved to an alternative location (but obviously keeping the controls where they need to be)? The same might be true of low voltage PSUs for mixing desks, lighting desks etc. Just because the kit needs to be in the cubicle, the power supplies don't necessarily have to be.

Get together with your workmates and see if you can come up with some imaginative solutions to remove (some of) the heat generation at source - if you can present a case to the employer that's low cost (and move expensive equipment to somewhere it can more easily be kept cool), they might be a bit more prepared to have a go.
NigelB  
#19 Posted : 08 June 2010 11:54:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NigelB

Good to see that workers get such sympathy when raising legitimate health and safety hazards.

As the temperature increases people become less efficient, more irritable, fatigued and make more mistakes. Preventing fatigue in workers – ie keeping them at a reasonable temperature – therefore aids efficiency and productivity. Or as the HSE put it when referring to engineering controls for thermal comfort:

‘Although the initial cost of engineering controls seems high, it has been found that the implementation cost is often offset by the resulting improvements to production and decrease in downtime, with reduced absenteeism and improved motivation.’

http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/thermal/controlling.htm

The ‘you’re lucky to have a job’ drivel will be used by unscrupulous employers to persecute individual workers who have the audacity to request decent working conditions. This is not a new concept and has been around since, well, since the first workers were employed.

During my time in the Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union heat was quite an issue generally. On those hot days that sometimes occurred during the summer, if the ventilation was not satisfactory, I often advised work stopped until adequate ventilation was provided. While this tended to inflame industrial relations in the short term, it invariably resolved the problem. Mainly this was to indicate to the ‘you’re lucky to have a job brigade’ that without workers, no one has a job. Or in this case, no bread! So it is better to look after them.

Fortunately there were sufficient reasonable employers to ensure that short term measures could be taken – increase in breaks, free fluids, temporary fans, mobile air conditioning etc – that alleviated the problem until the normal summer rain and cooler temperatures came back.

So Laura77 perhaps a word with a health and safety specialist in BECTU: The Media and Entertainment Union, in addition to the sources cited above, may offer some assistance:

http://www.bectu.org.uk/home

Cheers.

Nigel
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.