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pdurkin  
#1 Posted : 17 June 2010 13:08:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

Advice about the control of Norovirus seems to centre around hand washing / Universal Precautions. All very good,however as this virus,once called Winter Vomiting Virus,can be airborne,what good is waving clean hands at the 1000s of airborne viral particles?(about 20 required for infection) I have seen occasional reference to bleach on hard surfaces & laundering,but next to nothing about the airborne threat.So please advise: 1:Should RPE be worn,type,when attending infected clients/closed wards etc? 2/ How long does an infected particle remain active / airborne? (activity? / settling velocity?) 3/ Should fogging the atmosphere be considered or is bleach adequate? Regards,Paul
jay  
#2 Posted : 17 June 2010 13:21:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Not all viruses are airborne. Novovirus appears to be spead via contact with contaminated surfaces from vomit/faeces. Refer to:- http://www.hpa.org.uk/To.../InfectionsAZ/Norovirus/ If you require specific information, contact the Health Protection Agency.
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#3 Posted : 17 June 2010 13:55:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

It is a sensible idea but is rarely practical. Fogging, using H2O2 vapour, is likely to be helpful but the tests to prove activity against Norovirus have not been done and its use would be entirely speculative. Remember also that this is used for terminal decontamination only. It is a hazardous procedure that requires the area to be vacated and sealed during treatment - what do you do with patients in the meantime?
pdurkin  
#4 Posted : 17 June 2010 14:30:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

Thanks Jay, Yes the HPA concentrate on hand washing,but,I cannot understand how projectile vomit containing the virus cannot be at least in part be airborne !! Coughs and sneezes etc.Hence, either requires decontamination or as Ian presumably hints wait until they are inactive.Time? Yes, difficult to fogg a hospital ward,have been told it is done in ships and hotel roome, easier to confine. Regards,Paul
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#5 Posted : 17 June 2010 15:03:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Studies show massive contamination of air in the vicity of a patient with projectile vomiting but the numbers of virus particles fall off rapidly with distance from the source. Not a nice thing to think about, but I suppose the consistency of vomitus does not lend itself to aerosolisation! Fogging can be done anywhere, and is frequently used on ships. Wherever it happens, the same neds apply. vacate and seal the area. This means closing a hospital ward or a series of rooms on a ship. That places those area out of use for at least 4 hours, and with cleaning probably 24 hours. Since you cant decant the occupants to another area without them contaminating that area, its value in acute outbreak management falls far below cohort management and isolation, together with scrupulous hygiene management procedures. As the outbrake wanes and numbers of affected cases become small, the areas used for cohort management become fewer and as they are vacated then can be fogged and part of, but not the only, terminal hygiene procedure. H2O2 fogging may decontaminate clean surfaces. The evidence for penetration of sterilant into fabrics and heavily soiled surfaces, or into recesses and other voids where free circulation of air cannot be guaranteed, is not proven and probably poor. Effective cleaning with a suitable detergent disinffectant product remains essential.
pdurkin  
#6 Posted : 17 June 2010 16:17:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

Thanks Ian, That's useful,so fall off distance for the virus is close to the source,I was thinking of a CDC report on SARS when mention was made of viral droplet nuclei,travelling, via toilet water aerosolisation(diarrohea) as far as 160ft,hence my concern was wearing of RPE well before entering the ward / contaminated area. HPA seem fixated on hand hygiene,not sure that is the whole story as Norovirus is so infectious,to my simple mind ,I think of it as easy as catching flu !!! Regards,Paul
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#7 Posted : 17 June 2010 16:28:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Different viruses, different routes of elimination. Vomiting and coughs/sneezes are completely different in their aibility to generate fine droplets that become and remain airborne
pdurkin  
#8 Posted : 21 June 2010 09:23:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

Thanks again,Ian, I would assume that as viral particles are generated i.e. projected into air,they would remain airborne dependent on a variety of physica characteristics like; velocity; air movement;particle size etc. Hence any viral particle would have a settling velocity and stop distance e.g. for a 1um particle that would be 0.035mm/s and 0.004mm reaspectively (HSE source) so for Noroviral particle,when would you estimate their settling time / safe reoccupation time would be?(nearest hour) Or is there any rule of thumb for viral particles? For swine flu(sorry to mention) an estimated stop distance of one metre was given !!!
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#9 Posted : 21 June 2010 12:23:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Forget the virus, they are too small to make a diffeence, and concentrate on the droplet in which it is bound. How fast it that droplet moving? What is its viscosity, relative humidity and air temp (evaporation with reduce larger droplets to smaller lighter droplet nuclei that stay suspended for longer)? How turbulent is the air in general? Lots of factors, and many more beside, make rules of thumb totally unreliable. Ther have been quite a few studies each of a different situation and each offering figures for fall-out zones. Some might be reasonable as an average but that is no comfort if you are exposed at a point beyond that average. Personally, I dont thing such data are of particular value - there are just too many variables. It still comes down to personal hygiene to prevent unnecessary release (ie, coughing/sneezing). But from any other orifice, there isnt that much that the average patient can do about it. Now. almost time for lunch!
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