I'm a huge fan of heavy horses and being a keen horse rider have ridden them on several occasions. So it makes me sad when a company that is trying to promote heavy horses is sued by a MoP because their daughter got hurt when one of the horses she was riding slipped in the yard throwing her off. With all the precations in the world horses trip and stumble and slip. Even with riding hats injuries can occur. Horseriding is inherently risky. And so it breaks my heart when a company trying to ensure the survival of heavy horses (breeding, showing, riding holidays) is sued on health and safety grounds for something they had no control over. That's when I get fed up :-(

Captain Scarlet Clairel makes the point about why legislation came about and I don’t think it was about a minority of people. So: 1 I continue to be as proud today of being in the business of saving lives, improving the quality of workers’ lives and assisting employers develop more efficient and productive organisations by reducing accidents and ill-health, as I was when I started in this field. When working for the unions [1981 – 2002] I was proud to call myself a trade union National Officer. The working environment was a tad hostile: Prime Minister Mrs Thatcher spoke of trades unions as the ‘enemy within’ and Employment Minister Norman [on yer bike] Tebbit thought officers like myself should be ‘neutered’. I had to look this up in a dictionary and I was somewhat alarmed: living with the State instigated threat of having my testicles removed – presumably without an anaesthetic – was a bit of a strain. [Some people complain about State invasion of privacy today!! When I wer a lad ....] And the Daily Mail were not really supportive of trade unions then either. Nevertheless ….. I’m proud of the work over 22 years that my trade union health and safety specialist colleagues, officers and approximately 180,000 voluntary workplace safety representatives in the trade unions did in that period. The success of that work – which they have continued to this day - can be found on page 11 of the HSE’s new Strategy ‘Be part of the solution’ which states: ‘Equally, there is strong evidence that unionised workplaces and those with health and safety representatives are safer and healthier as a result.’ 2 Now I’m proud of being a health and safety consultant specialising in employee involvement and continuing to work in a field endeavouring to prevent occupational accidents and ill-health. My enthusiasm has never diminished. So there are challenges. Big deal: there always have been. So the profession feels unloved. Get over it. So there are some incompetent people: well, address that problem – oh hang, we are! The politicians have started a politically motivated review that has not – so far – been based on any facts. IOSH can challenge that with facts. 3 Here’s an idea, real off the wall stuff: how about we [IOSH] set up a group to address what we believe are the problems, into which an online consultation exercise could be set up. Don’t fit it into the Government review timetable, get our own timetable. In our report put what is good about the regulatory system, how we apply good practice and the 37,000 + members of IOSH be invited to put their top 5 successes for this year - big and small - into an e-mail and send it to the Communication Department. That would help provide evidence. The exercise could invite our members in the insurance sectors, law firms etc to investigate the reality of the so called ‘compensation culture’ at work. I say ‘so called’ because there isn’t one. Oh and to be really radical we could ask our 4,000 members abroad what they do about ‘bad press’! In the same report we could address the things that concern us and humbly accept where there are failings in our current approach – and they are there. We could propose a considered plan on how to address them. Indeed IOSH has already put proposals to address well recognised failings. This review gives us the opportunity to put our success on display; address failings that are real – not Daily Mail/Richard Littlejohn tripe; and re-motivate ourselves to work harder at spreading successful solutions into the places we haven't reached yet. Or is it really preferable to continue whining about issues in contrast to actually doing something about them? Me, I'm for confronting them?

NigelB: Avoiding the politics of this thread, which I am pleased to say, is evolving in quite a healthy manner, I am not saying that HSE reps / pros / A’s, or practitioners are scared of confrontation, expect to be loved, and the work place should be a stroll down the primrose path, what I am questioning is that after so long of having HSE gently introduced to the workplace, to almost commanding the working ethos, what have we achieved? My opening statement of how do we get there is not as confrontational as “what have we achieved”, because the answer is, very little, especially if you are one of the people who bought into the “HSE will become transparent in any business” phrase. IMO HSE is not essential, what is essential is training and educating a person to a level of skill required to perform the task at hand productively and without loss, (in any form). This is not HSE, it is where HSE see’s itself. I personally was dragged kicking and fighting into HSE because my manager at the time misinterpreted my level of professionalism as good HSE awareness. Regards para.2 the only person who can prevent accidents is the person who may have the accident. I would think that para.3 is being loosely addressed in this thread, with regards to what is wrong. Law firms investigating the compensation culture.. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you. “Or is it really preferable to continue whining about issues in contrast to actually doing something about them”? So what is the difference between airing our views on this thread regarding “issues in contrast” and a big organised pow-wow? The results will still be the same.

With regards to the horse riding incident, surely 'volenti non fit injuria' takes precedence unless some form of negligence can be proven?

Hi, Having waded through the teenage years of two children I believe all teenagers want to be treated like adults until something goes pear shaped. This is also the case with a high percentage of adults. Captain Scarlett, your son said he was treated like an idiot, unfortunately this is the case with adults also during the induction process. It's certainly not ideal but an induction has to take into account the intelligence/ common sense levels of all of the inductees. This is why we have to endure their scorn . I was in a similar position to Stephen n, and having passed Nebosh Construction am now a Construction H&S advisor. A lot of the younger lads in my local who work on sites rib me endlessly, but I give as good as I get. One reply I gave which springs to mind was " I'd just like to thank you lads because if it wasn't for idiots like you lot I'd be out of a job." Bear in mind I know these lads fairly well and it was took in the same spirit it was meant. But during these encounters I actually believe the message is getting through, evidence of this was when the main instigator of our exchanges actually bought me a shot last night during the England game. In answer to your question I don't think our profession will ever be fully accepted or appraised, simply because idiots don't actually know they are idiots, so we simply have to battle on or surrender. I've only been in the job for five minutes and my skin has trebled in thickness. All the best DNW

Some very interesting points made here! I certainly find it a shame that some people can't bring themselves to "admit" to others they work in H&S - as if it's something to be embarrassed about. I'm proud of the work I do, and thus happy to explain what I do. When I say "Health & Safety" - I do get a bit of an "ooooh" comment, with tongue-in-cheek, but the overwhelming experience (even from a taxi driver the other day!) is that people say it's good, as it needs to exist, and needs to be controlled (the lack of control in H&S seems to be something I picked up from a lot of you too?). Ultimately, like any person, in any job - it's how you put yourself across. I can make a joke of it, and still get a serious message accross, and thus I think that's an effective way of getting info out and helping people see the need for effective H&S management and understanding. I agree with people that the media isn't the WHOLE reason for the state this country is in with regards to perception of H&S - but I do argue it's most of this issue. When I first started as a psychology undergraduate, I had a lecturer argue with my point of saying the media often influences people, by him saying that the media only reports what we want. He eventually saw my argument that media very rarely asks for any of its digester's opinion on what they want to see reported. Whilst some could argue that buying a particular paper, or watching a particular channel gives credence to that idea, we buy/read/watch what we want anyway, and it's not usually a particular single news story that makes us purchase. So a lot of waffle there, but just me attempting to explain why I feel the media is well more than 50% of the issue - it offers a perception (media is perception, very little fact!) of H&S, and a lot of people swallow it whole. Perception is also the main point here, I feel, as the perception people have of H&S, if an incorrect one, can easily be shown the truth of what H&S is and does (when it works well) providing, as I said earlier it's put accross in the right manner. Too often I've seen "professionals" such as H&S officers and inspectors be so bullish and high-and-mighty - they certainly don't help our profession - I argue that H&S, like other jobs in the field, are VERY dependent on people management, so if someone has great knowledge of the law, but little or no people skills (either through lack of wanting those skills, or they have a quite, shy disposition) then H&S cannot be managed effectively, as you need to get the 'buy-in' of everyone involved. I do agree that tight (not just tight-ER) regulation of counsulants needs to be bought in quickly. (I had to read a risk assessment done by someone with CMIOSH after their name the other day, and to say it was pathetic is an understatement, but...I digress...). Keep posting, I'm interested in what you all have to say :) Lee

Lee was the attempt at the ra pathetic or the fact that the author included post nomials?????

I agree. Sick of all H&S consultants being seen as incompetent and unecessary.

I do not think it fair to tar all NEBOSH Certificate or even IOSH Managing Safely holders/participants with the one brush. There are plenty of CMIOSH etc just as capable of spoofing. Similarly, there are a number of individuals without formal qualification that have a good grasp of H&S. WRT to qualified/unqualified at this point in time no qualifications are required under law.