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Ron Hunter  
#1 Posted : 24 June 2010 13:45:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Can anyone out there recommend a DVD (or other resource) to provide people with information and instruction on conducting effective formal visuals on a range of portable appliances? I'm looking to get some failry simple messages to a lot of people in the most efficient way possible.
Grizzly  
#2 Posted : 24 June 2010 13:54:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grizzly

Appendix VIII of the IEE Code of Practice, 'Checks to be made on a plug, a cable and an extension lead' is a very good guide, plenty of good graphics. http://www.theiet.org/pu...ng/books/wir-reg/cop.cfm
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 24 June 2010 14:36:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Thanks Grizzly, I'll have a look at that. More suggestions would be welcome.
ahoskins  
#4 Posted : 24 June 2010 15:21:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ahoskins

This DVD includes visual inspection and testing techniques: http://www.pat-testing-course.com/
paul.skyrme  
#5 Posted : 25 June 2010 18:00:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Ron, Write you own power point with comments and perhaps an audio and turn it into a show. Go around with a digicam or ask on the forum for suitable pics? BTW I think the IET CoP is quite useful though. You could thry the ESC, or the NICEIC sites for further info too. Paul
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 27 June 2010 23:35:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

A point of contention for me is that some of these resources include a removal of the plug top. I have reservations about allowing unqualified people to do this in the workplace. Any thoughts?
Thundercliffe26308  
#7 Posted : 28 June 2010 08:42:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Thundercliffe26308

...wasnt that the point of of asking for advise on suitable training materials to inform the "workforce"...then you should have informed staff .....following procedures....that way you could ensure as far as reasonably practicable you have no reservations....or even get a "competent person " to perform the Pat testing.....
Grizzly  
#8 Posted : 28 June 2010 09:26:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grizzly

ron hunter wrote:
A point of contention for me is that some of these resources include a removal of the plug top. I have reservations about allowing unqualified people to do this in the workplace. Any thoughts?
Are we actually talking about formal visual inspections (as you stated in the opening post), or user checks? Removal of the plug top (where possible) is an important part of a formal visual, whereas user checks are external only, and do not include any dismantling of equipment. More info can be found in chapters 12 - 15 of the IEE CoP.
Canopener  
#9 Posted : 28 June 2010 11:34:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Absolutely. The removal of the plug top and check for correct fuse rating, tightness of connections, nipped wires etc is a key element of what I would consider to be a formal visual inspection
Ron Hunter  
#10 Posted : 28 June 2010 13:14:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Aye, there's the rub. I have 22,000 people spread over 1800+ workplaces, and I want to establish a system of annual formal (i.e. recorded) visual examination of appliances, particularly for those on a > 1year test & inspection regime (otherwise, I can include the formal exam within the competent person's annual test and inspection). I cannot make all our people experts. I believe there is a greater capacity for these people to do unsafe things if they are provided with a screwdriver. I refer to the HSE's own guidance at: http://www.hse.gov.uk/el...ricity/electricequip.htm wherein they make the statement (within a section I take to be equally applicable to a 'formal' process: "Check that the plug is correctly wired (but only if you are competent to do so)." Not a mandatory part of a formal visual in the eyes of HSE then? Of course, more and more of our equipment now comes with a moulded plug anyway. Comment?
Canopener  
#11 Posted : 28 June 2010 16:45:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Ron, the guidance you have quoted is somewhat simplified. Could I suggest you take a little peek at para 42 in HSG 107? http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg107.pdf Under the heading 'formal visual inspections' it says (and I paraphrase for the sake of not infringing copyright or the forum rules) that The systematic formal visual inspection is the most imprtant part of a maintenance regime, which in addition to the user check could include removing the plug cover and checking for the correct fuse, the cord grip is effective and that the plug is correctly wired and the terminals are tight etc etc IMHO the comptency requirements for this are relatively straightforward.
Ron Hunter  
#12 Posted : 29 June 2010 11:11:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Phil Rose wrote:
Ron, the guidance you have quoted is somewhat simplified. Could I suggest you take a little peek at para 42 in HSG 107? http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg107.pdf Under the heading 'formal visual inspections' it says (and I paraphrase for the sake of not infringing copyright or the forum rules) that The systematic formal visual inspection is the most imprtant part of a maintenance regime, which in addition to the user check could include removing the plug cover and checking for the correct fuse, the cord grip is effective and that the plug is correctly wired and the terminals are tight etc etc IMHO the comptency requirements for this are relatively straightforward.
The operative word in HSG107 being "could" (include removal of the plug top), not 'should' or 'must'.
Grizzly  
#13 Posted : 29 June 2010 11:24:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grizzly

ron hunter wrote:
The operative word in HSG107 being "could" (include removal of the plug top), not 'should' or 'must'.
The operative word is 'could' because in some cases, such as moulded plugs etc, one would not be able to remove the plug cover, and check the cord grip or the terminations. 'Must' or 'should' in these cases would be a nonsense. All the guidance from the HSE and the IET/IEE is quite clear. If you don't want your people to be removing plug covers or similar, then they will be doing user checks, not formal visual inspections. If you want them to carry out formal visual inspections, then they should be trained and sufficiently competent to do all that entails.
Ron Hunter  
#14 Posted : 29 June 2010 12:53:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Grizzly, I'm trying to adopt a pragmatic approach here, I want key people to be conducting formal (i.e. recorded, systematic) visuals as a confirmation that user checks are generally effective. But we are a very big Organisation.I do not want our people meddling with plugs and I don't have the resources to make them all competent to do so. There are issues of reasonable practicability here. I've seen far too many horror-show plugs (wired or fused by well-meaning people) in my time to appreciate that there can be no "half-measures" here. An alternative approach would be to have our PAT testers install decent tamper-evident labels or paint over the plug top fixing screw. In such instances both the user and those conducting formal visuals could "quarantine" any suspect item, pending investigation and label replacement by our PAT testers. The need for this will fall away as more and more appliances come into the workplace with moulded plugs. Anyone out there got such a system operating?
Canopener  
#15 Posted : 29 June 2010 15:40:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Ron, I fully accept that the HSE guidance says ‘could’, but can I suggest you back to basics and ask yourself what you’re trying to achieve, and if what you are intending to do will achieve it? If you look at the 107 guidance on user checks and then the guidance on formal visual inspections; if you don’t then do the ‘suggested’ plug checks etc then your formal visual inspection will be little or NO more than a user check. As always the decision is yours (the employers) to take but so is the responsibility and accountability attached to that decision. I would suggest that a FVI without a plug check would be an ‘interesting’ position to try and defend. I personally don’t think that the competency requirements for carrying out an FVI including a plug check are especially onerous. It is interesting that you mention “…I don't have the resources to make them all competent to do so. There are issues of reasonable practicability here”. I don’t want to be accused of being patronising (and I shall just go and grab the hard hat and stab vest in preparation for the flak) but I don’t think you can argue ‘reasonably practicable’ based solely on the resources that you have. It is a balance of the ‘cost’ AND the risk, so while you can’t argue that you CAN’T afford it, you can argue that you don’t NEED TO afford it as the cost far outweighs the risk. (Sorry for the use of caps but it is the only way to give emphasis) Seriously though, back to basics, you need to look at what you’re trying to achieve and then look whether the checks you are suggesting achieve it. I agree it needs to be pragmatic, but 'means' also need to achieve the 'end'. The choice is yours and yours alone. I quite like the tamper proof sticker idea though but just wonder how robust they would be in every day use.
Ron Hunter  
#16 Posted : 29 June 2010 23:55:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Cheers Phil. No need for figurative body armour in a debate with me, I assure you. So - if my "formal visuals" involve no more in the way of physical checks than my "user checks" what do I achieve? I achieve a formal (recorded) and systematic process involving a supervisory level in the organisation & a monitoring system which confirms whether or not "user checks" are effective. That'll do me nicely for starters. (It's a lot more than I've got just now). Now, if I don't include removing the plug top, what am I missing out on? My "higher risk" items are already covered by a cycle of annual (or better) combined inspection and test by competent persons - I don't need a formal visual regime for that kit. This includes the real wear-and-tear items like vacuum cleaners, floor buffers etc. What am I left with? Generally a vast array of office, audio-visual and PC related items. Most of that (as time passes) already has a moulded plug. Mostly, it stays put in a fairly benign environment. On balance, (I may already have said this) I consider I would be creating a bigger risk by giving my non-technical people screwdrivers to play with - irrespective of what they may be told and what they might retain from a days instruction. Don't even go there with replacement fuses. I'm still taken with the tamper-evident label or red paint over the screwhead of the removable plug top. Reasonable practicability? I think so. Could (there's that word again) I do more? Perhaps. In attempting more with the resources I have (and "resources" includes these non-technical people) Would I derive a greater benefit or would I merely invite a greater risk potential? You know where I stand. I was thinking of branching out from Health and Safety, and I have been keeping a close eye lately on a provider of Origami services, however I've just learned today that the whole operation has folded.
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