With the recession, some people might be tempted to cut corners and not renew their certification/registration. But what are the consequences for you and/or your organisation if there is an incident where the person delivering the training to your staff is out of certification or is not even on the approved register of trainers for the subject matter that they are delivering? Do you ask for copies of certification before engaging them?

Do you seek verification from the certification organisation/ registration body that they are legitimate?

A similar query would arise with Insurance cover, does the insurance cover the training been delivered, for example, live fire extinguisher training, which is expensive?

Have you contacted the Insurance provider and verified that the Insurance Cover is current and not just go on face value?

A friend of mine has just had a very lucky escape when they checked the above out. They were told that if there had been an incident, that the company would NOT have been covered by their Insurance policy.

In Ireland, the law requires you to do all "as is reasonably practicable" to ensure the safety, health and welfare of your employees in the workplace. I presume the same applies in other jurisdictions.

It might be no harm to instigate a review of providers before it is too late.

Few spelling hiccups, sorry!

Chris, In Ireland there is a Government body called FETAC who are, to give credit where credit is due, working hard on developing standards where the trainer must meet competency standards, in relation to health and safety training.

This is been done in tandem with trainers, employers bodies, HSA (Irish equivalent of HSE) and there is a general consultation process involved as well.

The Insurance angle though was a worrying development as well.

bleve, and what if the third party or trainer does not have adequate funds to pay for the damages? Hence the suggestion that you verify that all is in order before engaging the trainer/third party.

Chris

According to FETAC, it will do exactly that. They will have to attend a course on a specific subject, sit an exam approved by the FETAC council and if they pass that exam, it will issue a certificate specifically for that subject matter.

This is a fairly recent development but in my opinion, a progressive one.

Yes, and there is a requirement for feedback from the participants that the 'specialists' have been imparting their knowledge to.

It is definitely the right way to progress. I attended one of their briefing sessions and they pulled no punches. Any major issues and after all avenues have been exhausted, if they are not satisfied that you are delivering what you are supposed to be delivering in a manner that can be understood by the intended target audience, certification and registration is withdrawn.

Phil,

The cost is actually very reasonable and the accreditation assists with insurance costs, getting new business and guarantees quality

Phil, that is the beauty of FETAC. Everyone in Ireland HAS to recognise it. It is the one body that is GOVERNMENT accredited.

Ciaran

Your response raises a question. If I am the only person in my particular specialised field, who is going to assess whether what I do demonstrates competency? It isn't just a hypothetical question. Over the past thirty years I have developed an approach to a particular aspect of health and safety that is both evidence and experience based and that contradicts in many areas aspects of what is considered frequently as 'conventional wisdom'. So not infrequently what I say contradicts what some others, not specialists in my field, state, including sometimes our own health and safety authorities.

Who would assess me?

Chris

Ciarán, I am aware of an employee who suffered a back injury at work, the employer is a major supermarket. The employee received manual handling training. However on further investigation, I understand the trainers manual handling Instructors cert was out of date by about 6 months. I understand that was a crucial element to the employer having to pay out. The argument may be that the trainer was not qualified. I suppose the learning outcome of this would be to see the cert yourself and to keep a copy of it. Many inhouse manual handling instructors may not have certificates in date.

I was immediately drawn to the wording of the original posting title - the correct approach would be to verify competence before booking the trainer. Ciarán then seems to have then answered most of his own questions in the posting itself and obviously has a good understanding of various methods of verification.

I am some what out of touch in relation to Occc Health. Seamus could you remind me what Irish statutory instrument or enactment prescribes the requirement for certification and duration of certification with respect to manual handling instruction?

It is also interesting to note that the New Fetac level 6 will be phased in over the next two years and is not mandatory for sole traders or individuals offering manual handling training.

bleve, I hope that no one will take offence at my answering the question you directed at Seamus but I asked for clarification at the IOSH Ireland Branch Executive meeting this afternoon what the official legal position is and an update regarding FETAC.

(a) No S.I. exists defining the time frame for length of certification of either Manual Handling Instructors
or validity of trainees certification.

(b) Under the 2007 General Application Regulations, there is a requirement for all employees who engage in
manual handling activities to be trained to carry out these duties.

(c) With the new FETAC system, the initial plan APPEARS to be is that once you are certified to deliver
manual handling as an instructor, you will be certified for life.

(d) The recipient of said training will be certified for a period of three years (This will be contained possibly
in a code of practice emanating from the HSA

(e) There is no exclusion for sole traders or individuals offering manual handling training.

This is what I have been told this afternoon, at the IOSH Ireland Branch Executive meeting by a person who is engaged in the process with FETAC in creating the new protocols.

Hope this is of assistance to you and to others who have an interest in this field

Regards,

Ciarán