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firesafety101  
#1 Posted : 24 June 2010 08:22:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I know this has been well discussed previously but could someone please post a link directing me to a table of frequency of testing, mainly for construction tools and equipment.
Ron Hunter  
#2 Posted : 24 June 2010 11:10:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

HSG 141
mattyturton  
#3 Posted : 24 June 2010 11:16:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mattyturton

stel669  
#4 Posted : 24 June 2010 12:26:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stel669

Captain Scarlet  
#5 Posted : 24 June 2010 12:35:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Captain Scarlet

Chris, My guess for first port of call would be the manufacturer, they will give you the specs of any testing callibration, and schedules.
firesafety101  
#6 Posted : 24 June 2010 12:46:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Hi, I've got what I need from the above posts. HSG141 is the one but the web link to the other is a good guide. many thanks
shaunmckeever  
#7 Posted : 24 June 2010 14:10:34(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Is portable appliance testing a requirement or a recommendation?
firesafety101  
#8 Posted : 24 June 2010 14:21:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Careful Shaun, we don't want to be opening this can again do we? :-) It is actually a recommendation but some HSE Inspectors look upon it as a good tool for ensuring equipment safety.
shaunmckeever  
#9 Posted : 24 June 2010 14:40:46(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

I asked the question Chris because until recently I had believed it was a requirement and not a recommendation but I now understand it is a recommendation. I need to go away and do my own reading but I thought I would throw the question in here since the topic was raised.
ITER  
#10 Posted : 25 June 2010 10:34:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ITER

Disagree. Its a requirement to have adequate maintenance arrangements in place of electrical systems, which arguably includes the appliances on the end of the plug and wire from the wall socket. Reg 4(2) of the Electricity at Work Regs refers The argument comes more from whats a reasonable maintenance period/frequency etc, hence the endless (boring) questions about 'PAT' on this forum.
firesafety101  
#11 Posted : 25 June 2010 13:48:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I knew it would happen - here we go again :-)
paul.skyrme  
#12 Posted : 25 June 2010 17:54:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Chris, When you asked about training a few months back, I told you to do some electrical!!! ;-))))) Right, PAT. No I'm not going to go off on a one. PAT is NOT a legal requirement, as has already been stated the legal requirement is for safe systems & equipment and adequate maintenance, read sufficient to ensure safety, NOT correct function at all times. I have posted a few links to HSE stuff wrt to this before, I think it was under the old forum, can we still search this? I'll check the HSE site and see what I can find, there is also a BS for electrical distribution on construction sites i think I emailed you the number and a source to read online? Try also here: http://esc.org.uk/busine...ce-for/construction.html & here: http://www.select.org.uk...olation%20Procedures.pdf & here: http://esc.org.uk/pdfs/b...cal-industry/BPG2_09.pdf & here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/socket1.htm & here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/hsg85.htm & here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/el...y/maintenance/safety.htm There may well be peripheral links from this page that are also useful. I will try to dig out some other links & references. These above may duplicate the old ones I posted previously. Also this is a useful read the IET COP: http://www.theiet.org/pu...ng/books/wir-reg/cop.cfm I’m sure a man of your means can stretch to this, it is written in very clear language, not too much techno babble! I would be wary of commercial PAT sites as they tend to drum up business, I wish I could do it that way too nothing wrong, I'm just jealous! Paul
Canopener  
#13 Posted : 25 June 2010 20:42:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Why don't we blow PAT out and go out with PAM instead? She's much more sensible! PAM = Portable Appliance Maintenance. This could then incorporate pre use checks, formal visual inspections and testing, where necessary.
paul.skyrme  
#14 Posted : 25 June 2010 21:01:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Phil, You're wicked!!! I think PAM is much nicer than PAT! However, why keep the letter P. What is it that Carol used to say, I'll have a P please Bob... ;-) Come on it is still Friday. On a more serious note, I think that EEM maybe a better acronym! Electrical Equipment Maintenance. Not sure where she's from though, or is it he? As after all it should encompass, portable, stationary, fixed, mobile, transportable, and the fixed wiring installation. Now that would be just toooooooo much methinks! Don't know how to put a wicked smile! But, I feel that this is still appropriate even if made in a light hearted manner. Paul
JayJay  
#15 Posted : 27 June 2010 17:28:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JayJay

Try HSG107. Thats another guidance that talks about frequencies of combined inspections and tests. Regards, JayJay
firesafety101  
#16 Posted : 27 June 2010 19:35:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Jay Jay, You are the tops. Thanking you. That's what I was looking for - a document issued by the HSE therefore some real guidance on the frequency of, and reasons for testing portable electrical equipment. There can be no further confusion about it, PAT is a recommended requirement :-)
firesafety101  
#17 Posted : 27 June 2010 19:39:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

This guidance is issued by the Health and Safety Executive. Following the guidance is not compulsory and you are free to take other action. But if you do follow the guidance you will normally be doing enough to comply with the law. Health and safety inspectors seek to secure compliance with the law and may refer to this guidance as illustrating good practice. How much clearer can it be?
Canopener  
#18 Posted : 27 June 2010 19:48:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I think most of us are familiar with the status of HSE guidance. Interestingly, if you look at indg236 you will see that the HSE do NOT recommend PAT for a number of, mainly class 2, low risk, items of equipment
frankc  
#19 Posted : 27 June 2010 21:54:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

ChrisBurns wrote:
This guidance is issued by the Health and Safety Executive. Following the guidance is not compulsory and you are free to take other action. But if you do follow the guidance you will normally be doing enough to comply with the law. Health and safety inspectors seek to secure compliance with the law and may refer to this guidance as illustrating good practice. How much clearer can it be?
It could be a lot clearer and state all electrical equipment must be pat tested every 3 months but at the end of the day, surely it all depends on the environment in which it is being used. You wouldn't expect a builders angle grinder used every few days on a site to need pat testing as often as one being used day in day out in an oil refinery, would you? And sorry for calling you Shirley...
Neil P  
#20 Posted : 28 June 2010 16:56:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Neil P

Hi, All of the guidance above is a great source of information with respect to PAT frequency and I have refered to it often over the years. However, don't forget your insurance company as they might state a frequency for PAT regardless of any industry guidance. We are a tenant and we rent some office space. Earlier this year teh landlord showed around his insurance company representative/auditor/inspector. I was involved when they toured our offices and I was asked how often we carried out PAT on our computers. I stated that PAT was carried out every three years on PCs and annually on the kitchen equipment. I was told that we must increase the frequency of PAT on our PCs to annual tests as this was a requirement of the insurance policy. I obviously stated what I had read in industry guidance but was told that the insurance company wants annual tests regardless of what teh HSE or electrical industry suggests. Regards, Neil.
stevie40  
#21 Posted : 04 July 2010 15:11:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40

Neil P wrote:
We are a tenant and we rent some office space. Earlier this year teh landlord showed around his insurance company representative/auditor/inspector. I was involved when they toured our offices and I was asked how often we carried out PAT on our computers. I stated that PAT was carried out every three years on PCs and annually on the kitchen equipment. I was told that we must increase the frequency of PAT on our PCs to annual tests as this was a requirement of the insurance policy. I obviously stated what I had read in industry guidance but was told that the insurance company wants annual tests regardless of what teh HSE or electrical industry suggests.
Well, speaking as an insurance company surveyor (specialist liability insurer) I often tell clients they can reduce their inspection frequency on low risk items to bring it in line with the HSE published guidance. It sounds to me like the surveyor was covering the material damage aspects of cover - buildings and contents belonging to the landlord. Electrical inspection conditions are included on these policies but will usually relate to the fixed installation and frequency of testing, annual, 3 yrs or 5yrs. In the event of an electrical fire they will ask for evidence of the last periodic inspection report and if it is in date, the claim will be met. They are not talking about your legal liabilities to employees and visitors so you could carry on as you are and meet your HASAW and electricity at work obligations. I would also challenge the insurers as well. It would be inequitable to impose a condition on a landlords policy that can only be met by a tenant. Would they fail to pay out on a claim (to your landlord) if you had not PAT tested the electric fan you use once in a blue moon? It sounds to me like the insurer's rep is using a little knowledge to incorrectly apply the fixed electrical inspection and test condition (that can be met by a landlord) to the activities of the tenant and their PAT arrangements.
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