I would question the competence of your external auditor quite frankly. 100% score and no-one has had extinguisher training on a site with that number of employees? What kind of business is it?

We have 350 staff members accross three sites. Approximately 30 of these individuals are Fire Wardens or Street Marshalls and are therefore trained in the use of fire extinguishers. We advise all our staff to leave the building immediately via the nearest exit and not to tackle a fire, unless it is blocking your way. Even given the risks of using a fire extinguisher untrained, I would say that is preferable to recieve cold burns from an extinguisher than be caught up in a fire. I believe it would not be deemed reasonably practicable to train all your staff members in the use of fire extinguishers - the cost would far outweigh the benefits gained; but having 100s of fire extinguishers all over the place could be the difference between life and death in an emergency, especially if somebody is trapped. John S

Did the external audit include questions re fire extinguishers? if so there should have been further questions re training. I agree with Heather and suggest you contact the auditors and ask why so high a result when nobody can use the exy's?

I attended a IOSH SE Branch meeting where the fire order was discussed with a representative of the fire service and the requirement for fire extinguishers raised a heated debate. During the discussion it appeared that a different fire service representative had expressed a totally different opinion at a Kent Safety Group Meeting. After a lot of exchanges including HSE inspector input it was decided that if you had fire extinguishers then you had better train people to use them. The need for them was left unresolved depending on the individual building circumstances and ability to egress safely. So like all things until a precedent is set in court there will be no black & white but I would take the view that like all equipment you should train an appropriate percentage of your staff to use them.

Tony, I would question that. From PUWER "“work equipment” means any machinery, appliance, apparatus, tool or installation for use at work (whether exclusively or not)." Fire extinguishers are provided by the employer. I would certainly class a fire extinguisher as an appliance - PUWER then goes on to require training. Therefore, if you are to expect any worker to use an extinguisher, then they require to be trained. Different question as to whether you require your workers to use them, but if "provided" then training should be a must.

Training doesn't necessarily have to entail discharge or live fire practice.

I have often wondered whether the information provided on the outside of every extinguisher would be considered adequate if ever a case came to court.

Chris, your final sentence makes a great difference in my opinion. My query was whether the information alone (i.e. no further instruction of training) would be deemed sufficient. Consider the billions of consumer devices sold: each with a printed "how to use" leaflet, ranging from harmless infant toys up to chainsaws, barbecues, gas appliances and similar. No instruction or training given. Whilst it would no doubt be argued that PUWER and RR(FS)O talk about training, could there be a counter argument?

For a moment there I thought I'd wandered onto the Government's 'Your Freedom' site by mistake - think someone has asked a similar question there.

Training is however required under the FSO; The training referred to in paragraph (1) must— (a) include suitable and sufficient instruction and training on the appropriate precautions and actions to be taken by the employee in order to safeguard himself and other relevant persons on the premises; This means if extinguishers are part of the workplace precautions and actions then training is required. Why have them if no one will use them if not trained Of course you can use them if not trained. Extinguishers can also cost lives, be it in very seldom cases. We all know the individual has also some responsibility to themselves and others. The law also states training should be provided in a manner appropriate to the risk identified by the risk assessment. So as with everything else it is all down to the FRA. Would you include or have to include fire extinguisher training to a ground floor open plan office with 7 employees?? Doubt if it would get to Court if not, don't you. If you were in an Industrial Estate working with flammable chemicals then hell yes.........

i think the fire brigade are targeting two different audiences the home owner who is more than likely not have received any training and who might place themselves more at risk as they are protecting there property form being destroyed. and probably doesn't have suitable fire fighting equipment or automatic fire detection linked in to remote monitoring centre (alone smoke detector isn't adequate in my opinion for the average house) The other audience is the worker who has received fire safety training the premises is fitted with fire detection so the fire service will be on their way. also would be in larger building with larger rooms more means of escape and the reduced risk of sleeping premises (except where there is a sleeping risk then the fire detection would be greater). Also less likely to place themselves at risk as they don't own the premises or anything contained in it. Phil