I read in another topic a request for a fire risk assessment template, this suggesting a lack of competence for the person doing the work? When my car needs a service I take it to a garage where a suitably trained mechanic does the work. I can change a wheel, put air in the tyres, fill up the water bottle and check the oil but that's as far as I'll go. If I need a few extra sockets in my house who do I call - yes an electrician. I'll happily change a plug and ensure the correct fuse is fitted and change a light bulb but no way will I attempt rewiring the house. When my gas central heating needs an annual service guess who does it - yes the trained gas engineer. I do nothing to the gas heating system, except pay the bills. I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift by now. I read an interesting article this month in a fire journal regarding "reliable risk assessment". The writer mentions prosecutions under the fire safety order for inadequate risk assessment and poor fire safety management. Another article in the same journal mentions the fire risk assessment must be made by a 'responsible person' - normally the building owner, landlord or person operating the business on the premises. It also says that investigations have revealed that some fire risk assessments are deficient, perhaps this is because there are no qualifications or requirements to be a fire risk assessor. Is it just because the mechanic, gas engineer and electrician have to have qualifications that we use them and if not would we all have a go at that type of work ourselves? I doubt it as we all realise the consequences of doing a bad job. (I hope?) One aspect of being competent is knowing our own limitations in certain areas, surely this applies to all areas of work. To do a bad job of a fire risk assessment means potential lives at risk and/or property burnt to the ground, lost jobs livelihood etc. I wonder why some people in our profession have not got that message yet?

Poor COSHH assessment, somebody gets burnt or overcome by fumes, if for a large organisation, swimming baths perhaps, a trained chemist will probably do the COSHH. Manual handling assessment, how many people affected by a bad assessment at any one time? Not more than a few. How about WAH? Poor assessment how many people get injured or killed? One or two maybe? Electrical worker risk assessment - how many affected if it goes wrong? Probably just one, and yes it could be fatal. What other risk assessments can affect a whole workforce? Think how many employees are in your workplace and they could all die in a fire if the fra is a poor one. (That applies to all workplaces from small to large). One major point about fire is it does kill people and the fra is all about saving life and property so let's get it right first time, please. Oh and by the way the number of prosecutions is gaining momentum.

Chris, I do not have a problem with fellow professionals asking for advice and guidance on a field that may be new to them. What is frustrating is when people ask for advice they get slated for it, i am sure the majority of h&s professionals have amended forms, documents etc to suit their own companys profile. If you attend a FRA course does that make you competent, i dont think so, experience makes you competent and to gain experience you have to do something new for the first time and carry on doing this.

I thought there would have been more interest in this, mistaken eh? One point - there was a workplace fatality, on Friday I think, at a Will Young concert. Apparently an electrician was electrocuted while working at height and he fell. Don't know what caused the death - electric shock or the fall? Either way there would/should have been risk assessments, maybe method statements? My sympathies to his family. Point is something went wrong, possibly a poor risk assessment, or training, or just a plain old accident but one person died as a result. The concert was delayed for a while. Now for my point - if that electrical "fault" (or whatever it was), had caused a fire and, if the fire risk assessment was a poor one there was an audience of people, a few thousand? who would all have been affected by the fire, not just one person. I know it is all conjecture but I'm just trying to get it across.

Ditto Pete Chris - the consequence of a fire is not always total loss of life. If we used this analagy then everything we assess would end up in the 'will result in death' box. Steve

I'm with pete48 on this one. The topic of competence has been thrashed out many times - over recent weeks/months. Its now getting to be a very boring and sterile argument/discussion. Even more so with respect to fire safety/FRA. As others have said - you don't often see arguments (which are equally valid) about competence in DSEAR/CoSHH etc. I remain of the view - most workplaces do not pose a high fire risk/threat to life - and most reasonably competent and experienced safety advisers could produce an acceptable fire risk assessment. I do agree though, that knowing one's own limits is important - and then call on someone with more knowledge. Chris, move the argument on - there is more to h&s then your own apparent area of specialism of fire safety. Most companies have to trade off a reasonable level of h&s compliance and practice in ALL areas as well as run a business and make a profit.