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Berm  
#1 Posted : 21 July 2010 14:50:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Berm

I need advice, How do you know what exposure to dust and fumes you are exposed to? I have MSDS for the solid make up of the product but as regards to the break down into dust and fumes?? It is a steel processing company that I work for that uses oxy,propane,nitrogen to cut mild steel plate we also shotblast the steel. So the dust from the shotblasting is an issue aswell. Be kind with your response.
leadbelly  
#2 Posted : 21 July 2010 15:10:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
leadbelly

Berm The short answer is you don't unless you get someone to measure the exposures. Try contacting a local occupational hygienist from here: http://www.bohs.org/asse...44-ab87-0c43320e12ae.pdf LB
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 21 July 2010 15:35:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Good old EH40 refers to 10mg/m3 (total inhalable) and 4 mg/m3 respirable as limits for dusts arising from ferrous foundry work. The methods used to determine actual exposure should be in accordance with MDHS14/3 - a document you may be able to download free from HSE website. That said, you're going to need the services of a specialist occ.hygienist to determine real-time exposures. EH40 (2002) also refers to EH44 & EH64, and these guidance documents may also still be available. Fume is another matter, with exposure levels dependent on the materials involved, although EH40 2002 does quote (then) OEL of 5mg/m3 for general welding fume (EH54/55), other metals and oxides (e.g. Cadmium) have much more stringent OEL and STEL quoted. Hope this helps.
johnmurray  
#4 Posted : 21 July 2010 15:42:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Your friendly health and safety consultancy should be able to advise you on the appropriate tests, and the appropriate time to have them done. As a general guide; Starting the test/s at the same time as the lunch break starts is highly recommended.
Clairel  
#5 Posted : 21 July 2010 15:57:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

You don't know what the level of exposure is unless you have some form of monitoring carried out appropriate to the nature of exposure. In an ideal world everyone would have exposure monitoring carried out initially and then carried out again once additional measures are put in place if necessary and again periodically. The reality is that people make a judgement call and reserve the cost of monitoring for when they are not sure, or when particuarly hazardous substances are being used. So for welding most companies make a judgement on what they are welding (and what they are welding with) against frequency, duration and natural air flow. Infrequent welding of mild steel in a well ventillated area then most people accept that. Beyond that people start putting in extraction, ideally monitoring to see if that does what it should in terms of air quality but in reality most don't monitor just test the equipment for efficiency. Companies that do welding as a primary part of their business should really get monitoring carried out periodically but many don't. Shotblasting should be extracted. I'll probably get shot down for that response being irresponsible and how the only way you can be sure is to monitor etc. But I can only give advice based on my experience and tell it how it is at most SME's not what the ideal is. I've said what the ideal is but I've also said how many SME's deal with the issue. Things may have changed but when I was inspecting unless there were obvious fumes hanging around or coated metals were involved I didn't start thinking about IN's. The HSE do quite a bit of guidance on welding and LEV etc.
johnmurray  
#6 Posted : 21 July 2010 16:17:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Welding has changed a lot. In the field of constructional steel fabrication, the steel is coated with a primer, called a "weldable primer". Supposedly applied in a 25 micron coat, which is usually some 75-150+ microns thick, it is to protect the metal against corrosion prior to welding. Since it also tends to be a two-pack paint the fumes can be a bit "thick". Some of the primers the metal comes coated in are specific types....zinc-rich for instance. Then again, in the sheet metal part of the trade the metals can come coated with various other metals...zinc again...passivated with gold et-al....etc.. In all the time I've been welding only one company has ever had dust/fume tests done...and that was at the insistence of the H&S inspector. And they failed. As for flame cutting/shotblasting....it depends what you use in the way of shotblasting...cubicle or open-air...either way one would hope the operator is protected...
Mick Noonan  
#7 Posted : 21 July 2010 16:52:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mick Noonan

How do you know what exposure to dust and fumes you are exposed to? Berm the answer is that you put a monitor on one of your people and measure against time (normally over 8hrs). Try an internet search using "drager" they produce equipment that is used for personal monitoring. A little training and you yourself can become proficient in their use given time and can perform regular monitoring versus time with differing personnel. If you've got the MSDS then you are half way there. I would also suggest that you calibrate your results by getting an outside contractor to perform the same tests to ensure that you are testing accurately.
johnmurray  
#8 Posted : 21 July 2010 20:27:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Which may tell you the quantity, but not what comprises the dust. I think you'll find that the personal body-worn units will become clogged with dust in any industrial situation well before the eight hours is over. So they usually do it for two hours and multiply things up...
Berm  
#9 Posted : 22 July 2010 12:13:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Berm

Many thanks for your help. I will discuss with the company regarding these issues.
Berm  
#10 Posted : 22 July 2010 12:31:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Berm

How do we find out the risk phrases for dust and fumes when these are not on the MSDS or on EH40 list? Surely with dust and fumes they are an irritant so guidance as to the effect on health will need to be advised.
Mick Noonan  
#11 Posted : 22 July 2010 13:47:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mick Noonan

Berm, We use the terms 'Dust' and 'fume' when we don't know what something is. Your job is to find out what it is and then your MSDS will give you all the relevant guidance. If you know the chemicals/materials involved inyour processes then that will lead you to the answers. If that's still not sufficient then take a sample and send it for analysis, better still invite a company in to take the sample themselves. If nothing else you've got peace of mind. If you want to go to another level again, have all employees attend a yearly medical which includes blood testing. If you also perform medicals on prospective employees then you have a record of 'before' and 'after' that allows you monitor exposure inside and out, so to speak.
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