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Martin SE  
#1 Posted : 05 August 2010 15:21:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin SE

Please see the below which is an extract from the HSE website - this is a transcript of an answer given by the HSE infoline, and came through on the HSE bulletin 26 July. I just wondered what the general thoughts of others were in this respect - the question is about CDM 2007 and what a Client would need to do when preparing a project. The answer discusses the need for an F10 form but makes no mention of appointing a CDM C, Principal Contractor or any other key duties. Perhaps this is in order to keep things simple for a 'non-professional' Client but I feel the answer given should have contained slightly more information, or aat least mentioned some of the key appointments. Perhaps I'm being too critical but interested to hear the views of others. Thanks, Martin When does CDM 2007 (Construction, Design and Management Regulations 2007) apply to a project? Listen to the answer - Transcript Good afternoon, HSE's Infoline, Andrew speaking, how can I help. Hello, my name's Rachael Jones, I'm here to answer all of your health and safety questions. Imagine I own a shop and I've decided I want to just put a little extension out the back, do I have to tell you about it? Well if your work is going to last more than thirty days, thirty working days. The building work? The building work itself, then you need to give notification to the HSE, which would be in the form of an F10 form. So it's a legal requirement to tell the HSE that your work's taking place. So this is really just to make sure that anything that I build is going to be safe for me and the people at work? That's correct, and people around you as well. The F10 notification, which is what the notification is, requires details of all people working on site, a variety of things really, so all the information's there for the HSE. So is the idea here to sort of stop any kind of cowboy jobs? It does help the HSE obviously keep track of the number of construction sites and building projects taking place. Obviously if it's more than thirty days, a bit more of a larger project, more people involved, more building materials, there could be more risk, so the HSE has that notification. So what is this F10? The F10 form is the formal notification required by the HSE. But they have produced an F10 form which is easier to use, which you can actually go online and fill out and just submit to the HSE. So if I'm doing any building work that takes more than thirty days, I need to make sure that I've filled in this F10 form as a way of recording the work that I've done? That's correct. If you need to amend it at any point because the project changes, you can just re-enter it by entering in your details, you get a unique login and then you can just amend and send it, it's quite easy to use. So it's all online? All online, you can just access it at the HSE website www.hse.gov.uk[1].
freelance safety  
#2 Posted : 05 August 2010 15:37:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

In fairness to the HSE Info-line, they are not health and safety experts that you are taking too. These are people answering questions from a script and the basic knowledge they have been given. I generally think they do a good job and provide a good general service.
Martin SE  
#3 Posted : 05 August 2010 15:47:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin SE

Thats a fair point, and I agree they generally do a good job. However, for something like this shouldn't the script be updated to include some more of the key points?
littlegreenipod  
#4 Posted : 05 August 2010 16:03:43(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
littlegreenipod

It should also be be said that the answer given was to the question asked. The caller did not ask for general advice on the application of the CDM Regs in general, just if the HSE had to be told. The caller would also need to know about Planning Permission and Building Regs in order to decide if these impact on their shop extension. Yes, it would have been ideal to direct the caller to the general guidance on CDMRegs, though perhaps being asked to 'imagine' the caller owned a shop, gave the impression that broader advice wasn't required.
freelance safety  
#5 Posted : 05 August 2010 16:05:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

Good point Littlegreenipod.
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 05 August 2010 23:36:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

As others also say, I think the answer reasonably in context. The F10 form would itself prompt the other aspects and appointments you mention Martin, and it would be the job of these "professional" appointments to provide the Client with information about his CDM duties too.
Canopener  
#7 Posted : 06 August 2010 06:48:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I am not hugely in favour of providing 'transcripts' of conversations from a source such as HSE infoline as we are only geting one side of the story and have to take the 'transcript' at face value. The original question at the top is "When does CDM 2007 (Construction, Design and Management Regulations 2007) apply to a project?" Answer; it applies to ALL construction work; notification is a different matter. Interesting that, that question appears to be before the call/transcript of the call starts and then the question "Imagine I own a shop and I've decided I want to just put a little extension out the back, do I have to tell you about it?" is asked. They are two different questions and I am not quite sure whether both were asked of the operator, the first appears not to have been from the 'transcript'. The latter question, was answered reasonably well. Also a little confused about the 'transcript' - Andrew seems to turn into Rachel on the next line. It's early so I may be confused!
rmjones  
#8 Posted : 06 August 2010 14:29:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rmjones

Thank you for the comments regarding Infoline. I think it may be helpful here to explain a little more about the role of HSE Infoline and what we do. I’d like to reassure everyone that all Infoline team members are technically qualified in health and safety. Our training is extensive and all hold varying levels of qualifications from the Nebosh general certificate up to the Nebosh Diploma. Infoline do not read from scripts. Given the nature of health and safety, the questions we receive really can be about anything and everything. It would be impossible to script answers to this huge variety of requests covering the very basic to the very complex. The role of Infoline is to provide information to anyone who has a health and safety enquiry and the majority of our queries come from employees of small and medium businesses. Infoline does not provide advice, indeed the remit of the service prevents it. If an enquiry is such that it requires advice, it will be transferred to one of the many specialists in HSE for them to respond. Infoline will provide answers from HSEs wealth of published legislation and guidance as well as specifically written subject briefings. The transcript that is the subject of this forum thread is actually from a podcast produced by HSE, using Infoline, for their website. The content of the podcast is meant to be short and basic. The subject was about the requirement to notify a construction project and not about the application of CDM generally. It was recorded because questions about the F10 feature as one of Infolines most popular topics. I can assure you that the Infoline team are aware of the other requirements talked about in your comments, but this was not the question this podcast was answering. We can appreciate that the title may be misleading here and feedback will be routed to the appropriate source to highlight this. All podcasts are approved and verified by the relevant HSE sections prior to release to ensure they are suitable for inclusion on the HSE Website to provide information. If anyone has any further questions, please feel free to contact the service where we will endeavour to assist you with any of your enquiries
Clairel  
#9 Posted : 06 August 2010 14:54:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Provides information not advice. It's no wonder many who ring up feel let down by the experience. I tried it once many years ago and when I was given the standard reference to what legislation there is I never bothered again. I was not given the option to talk to a specialist for advice either. Obviously an adviceline ....sorry information line..... for those with little knowledge to point them in the right direction of HSE publications. Dare I say it better off coming here for advice from people who are actual practitioners and are prepared to give advice. Infoline needs to sell itself more accurately perhaps.
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