No we don't, but we do have some individuals that have been issued with them through their GP as they specifically have been disgnosed with an allergy. We have a training pen and do include some simple straightforward training for first aiders and co-workers in reconising anaphalactic shock and the administration of the epi-pen.

Planning to stick needles into people and administer potentially harmful medicines based on weak circumstantial evidence - did the guy collapsing in the canteen eat a dodgy sandwich or collapse with a heart attack or stroke? - is likely to kill the innocent and take you very quickly to court.

Your first aiders could not possibly have teh skills to make such judgement calls and would risk the lives of others.

Don't go there.

I am inclined to agree with Ian.

Unless first aiders have specific training they should only ever 'assist' an allergic party to administer their own medicine.
That said if authorised by an occupational health doctor and with appropriate training it may be ok. If this is the case I see no reason why a few pens can't be kept with a response kit. Guidance is always to have two pens in case a) one fails to deliver appropriate does, b) one does is not enough.
You also need to consider chance of multiple casualties in a short period of time.

I assume these are all advanced first aiders and not just FAW? I would have thought administration of oxygen and protection of the airway would be a higher priority?

Thanks for the responses so far:
It looks like no-one issues Epi-Pens just in case. As far as the bee unit is concerned I am not that worried. The firstaiders have all been given the necessary training and they know what anaphylactic shock looks like. My main concern is this idea of keeping an epi-pen with each first aider, when it would be just as easy for them to pick up a pen from the Bee Unit office. Unfortunately there is no test for bee sting allergy as people working with bees develop the allergy over time. We have had cases of people who have worked with bees for decades and treat being stung as no big deal, then suddenly one day they develop full anaphylactic shock after being stung.

If someone has that extreme an allergy then they should be having their own epi-pen it's not up to an employer to provide every medical need for employees. Would you give asprin to someone having heart pain?? No (well I hope you said no!!).

Surely those working in your organisation are aware that the bees are there and therefore if they know they react they can carry the pen themselves.

trouble is in my view Clairel is that the business has introduced the risk by having the bees on site so need to have a control measure in place. it would be a bit like having drums of acid on site and telling employees it's down to them if they get injured by it.

I think ensuring staff are warned and first aiders are trained in what the signs are and the correct first aid treatment would be then that is most you can do. going back to the original post does everywhere that serves peanuts in food have to have epi-pens on standby, i think warning staff should be sufficient. Not clear if the pens are on prescription and has to be issued by a doctor how the company is getting hold of them.

Phil

The administering of drugs by any other than a medically qualified person/s is not allowed by law.
There are a few exceptions:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/firstaid/faqs.htm#tablets

YES! I think it's the first time i have disagreed with a Clairel post :)

the point here is that risk assessment has identified a risk and a suitable control. the point is not everyone is known as allergic and a reaction can start at any time.
from the reply the poster has i assume they work on the advice of a doctor and have suitable controls to prevent stings in place.

The question was about each first aider having a pen, or keeping them at a central point, my answer is advice is too always have two pens and I would also like to see oxygen and airways available, so I would place a trauma kit (or several depending on size of site and RA) at a central point.

When I worked with Chrome VI first aiders were trained to administer massive doses of Vitamin C and apply very specific creams.... all under advice and training of our occupational health doctor.

Research shows (British heart foundation I think) that administration of aspirin in approved does increases chance of survival, side effects are rare (patient has to be allergic) and the current thinking is benefits outweigh risk.

I don't carry it in my kit but would administer to a patient who was conscious.

:)

Regular intake I agree with you, but in said situation maybe it's better than being dead.

I am still amazed that I disagreed with you and lived to tell the tale, BTW you are on my list of posters whose posts are worth reading :)

I am of the understanding - because of emergency visits to our local GP and my wife being issued with pens for several years now, because she gets severe reactions to eating shellfish if she has taken Glucosomine tablets. Our "casual" RA indicates stay clear of one or other of the reactants, which the bee keepers cannot.

That there is an increased chance of going into shock each time there is an aleregic reaction. So someone who started working with the bees may over time develop a more severe reactions and this may or may not be have been picked up on the RA and therefore would be a reason for staff to carry a pen?

amyl nitrate? Wasn't that what they used to call Poppers? Or am I hallucinating??

I can only refer you back to what the HSE guidance that John Murray posted that you can only administer an Epi-pen if it belongs to that person as prescribed by their GP/hospital. That seems reasonable to me.

I used to work with Cyanide - See HSE advice - DO NOT use antidote under any circumstances it kills more people than the poison :)
Your current controls are correct, there was an historic problem when i worked on the COMAH site with cyanide of contaminated clothing overcoming the paramedics as well once in the nice enclosed space that is the rear of the ambulance!

As for the bees I think you are also in the correct place... oh and look for the old thread on bee stings and RIDDOR it was a bute!
the HSE was advice was a bee sting was not reportable if the bee was just passing through :)

My point is your bees are not passing through and therefore you are correct to address the risk.

Good luck and i hope we have helped :)
Oh and don't put aspirin in your first aid kits unless approved by occi health doctor - I know it's madness but you can give it but shouldn't carry it :)

First. Aspirin.
Aspirin for use in suspected heart attack.
Research has noted that it has minimal effect when administered to female patients.
Secondly, an epi-pen.
Why any sane person would wish to administer a potent drug to an unknown person is something I would rather not think about.
Precisely how do you ascertain that the "patient" is having an severe allergic reaction if you are not a [skilled] physician ?
Note:
"Each EpiPen Auto-Injector contains a single dose of a medicine called epinephrine, which you inject into your outer thigh. DO NOT INJECT INTRAVENOUSLY. DO NOT INJECT INTO YOUR BUTTOCK, as this may not be effective for a severe allergic reaction. In case of accidental injection, please seek immediate medical treatment.
Epinephrine should be used with caution if you have heart disease or are taking certain medicines that can cause heart-related (cardiac) symptoms.
Side effects may include an increase in heart rate, a stronger or irregular heartbeat, sweating, nausea and vomiting, difficulty breathing, paleness, dizziness, weakness or shakiness, headache, apprehension, nervousness, or anxiety. These side effects usually go away quickly, especially if you rest. If you have high blood pressure or an overactive thyroid, these side effects may be more severe or longer lasting. If you have heart disease, you could experience chest pain (angina). If you have diabetes, your blood sugar levels may increase after use. If you have Parkinson's disease, your symptoms may temporarily get worse"

There will be thousands of teenagers who would wish you'd told them that 25-30 years ago!!!

Doh - right words wrong order - it really is time for a holiday.

How can you tell the bees apart?

Blimey what a honeycomb of different answers. Some sweet as honey, some with a real sting in the tail. To bee fair I think that the numbeer of pens that you have is a bit extreme.

OK, you have bees, so you can say that there is a foreseeabee risk. And I agree that yes those who know that they will have a reaction should bee carrying their own stuff. However I would try and identify them, bee helpful and provide a couple of pens in a central location, provisionally as a back up for them. Murphy’s Law states that if it can go wrong then it will bee going wrong. The day they get stung will bee the day they leave their stuff on the train.

As for running around sticking needles into every Tom, Dick and Harry. To bee sure that isn’t good. Trouble is, remembeer anyone can beecome allergic to a verity of things, including Bee stings at any time, you cannot bee planning for that, it happens. So bee sensible and have a plan in place so that you can get professional emergency response quickly beefore it’s too late. Get on the blower and get them to hospital where they can bee treated.

Educate the staff and bee careful with visitors, maybee you could put a notice in the main entrance for visitors telling them about the bees (but exclude the birds), ask them to bee co-operative and inform reception if they know that they maybee allergic. It may also bee a good reminder to full time staff membeers.

For the record. Yorkshire Bees have accents and wear little flat caps.

All I want to know is the answer to this. Do the London Wasps have a B team?

Chris.Packham aka Dr Gregory House ;-)

That really is fascinating. So her anaphylaxis was triggered psychologically but not physiologically? Wow. So how does one treat that then?

Certainly does add weight to the argument of those who believe that only medical professionals should administer epipens (except for those who carry their own and can self-administer).

Idiopathic somatoform anaphylaxis ........... next stop Google!