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JasonMcQueen  
#1 Posted : 06 August 2010 13:21:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JasonMcQueen

We recently had an accident involving a external contractor. The contractors actions leading up to the incident were totally inappropriate and outside of the accepted and agreed working practice. He elected not to use equipment that had been provided to perform the task safely and instead took a short cut which resulted in his injury. Beyond demonstrating that, prior to the accident, we had sufficient reason to believe he was a competent contractor to perform the duty, can anyone think of any other areas that should be addressed in ensuring the company has robust defence? Permits, method statements, risk assessments etc were in place, the contractor just took it upon himself to perform the task different to that agreed.
firesafety101  
#2 Posted : 06 August 2010 13:47:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

If you have proof of training, (induction and use of equipment provided), risk assessment read and understood, and witnesses to the accident that are prepared to write statements then that should be enough. You will have to notify your insurer who will probably ask for the above and your contractor competence checks.
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 06 August 2010 14:47:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I aggree with Chris, although irksome you cannot always legislate for individual violations from operatives. Being that the injured person was a contractor, surely, the liability in insurance terms falls to the operative's employer? Who should also have evidence of training, method statement, risk assessment etc.
JasonMcQueen  
#4 Posted : 06 August 2010 16:39:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JasonMcQueen

Normally yes. Unfortunately the guy is self employed and so I expect him to chance his arm at claiming the site was responsible. He's going to be off work for a few months as a result of his injury and so suffer loss of earnings.
Ciarán Delaney  
#5 Posted : 06 August 2010 16:52:59(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Jason, Can I be devils advocate here. You state "prior to the accident, we had sufficient reason to believe he was a competent contractor" what evidence did you base your assumptions on? You also state that "The contractors actions leading up to the incident were totally inappropriate and outside of the accepted and agreed working practice". What actions were taken to correct these behaviours and is there physical evidence to support this? Did anyone challenge him prior to not using the equipment provided? These are the questions that you are going to be asked and are being put here to assist you and are in no way meant to be critical or me passing comment. To use an Irish expression, "There but for the Grace of God, goes I" and trust me I've had some beauties in my time.
Fletcher  
#6 Posted : 06 August 2010 17:20:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Fletcher

Jason, Following on from Ciaran, you may wish to consider Do you have a documented contractor selection procedure that includes a H&S section? Did your contractor provide you with copies of appropriate insurances and copies of his competence (qualifications, appropriate certificates, appropriate membership details)? When he was injured was he using your or his own equipment? Did this equipment need test certificates and if so do you have them? In your safe system of work was there any agreement on supervision or assistance? Was he working alone and did you have a safe contact system in place? Sorry may be after the horse has bolted but I have been asked for all the above and more when dealing with contractor injuries Take Care
JasonMcQueen  
#7 Posted : 06 August 2010 17:39:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JasonMcQueen

Oh I whole heartedly agree. The basis for the assumption of competence was that the chap had been on site before and performed the task correctly. He'd submitted the correct documentation RE Risk Assessment, method statements etc. Ensured that the correct equipment was available for use but at the last minute elected not to use it in order to save time. Basically he improvised access equipment which resulted in a fall. We have a documented contractor selection procedure including H&S duties and questions regarding previous accidents, prosecutions etc on which he returned with no issue. He was working essentially unsupervised by our staff whilst performing the task but had a site contact if he needed any assistance. It was a small task and if we had assigned an engineer to shadow him, we might as well have got the contractor to perform the task itself.
Fletcher  
#8 Posted : 06 August 2010 17:52:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Fletcher

Jason, From your reply it appears that this contractor went on a "Frolic of his own". Conduct your investigation, assemble the documentation back up ready to pass to your insurers Good Luck & Take Care
Ciarán Delaney  
#9 Posted : 06 August 2010 19:07:28(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

In my honest opinion, you did all that could have been reasonably expected of anyone and if the other person decides to do their own thing, then they can justify their behaviour if they persue it in court.
RayRapp  
#10 Posted : 07 August 2010 09:31:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

As an aside, self-employed workers also have duties arising from their undertakings pursuant to HSWA s3(2).
JasonMcQueen  
#11 Posted : 07 August 2010 19:03:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JasonMcQueen

As an aside from this, I've been checking all our other self-employed contractors and some of them dont actually submit risk assessments. When I questioned them on this, they justified it on the basis that they have less than five employees and therefore dont have to record the findings of their assessments. Basically claiming that they do it mentally. I find this unacepptable and intend to instruct the appropriate managers on Monday that they either get the contractors to provide risk assessments or we dont use them again. However, I was wondering how this stands legally if such a thing was to occur again.
Ciarán Delaney  
#12 Posted : 07 August 2010 19:18:43(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Jason, Demand risk assessments as part of the contractual agreement. Otherwise, they can find somewhere else to work. I could blow peoples minds in here but I need to clear this with the moderation team and to be fair, they'll need to have a group chat on what I'm proposing to post.
JasonMcQueen  
#13 Posted : 07 August 2010 19:31:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JasonMcQueen

Thats what I intend to do. Im just wondering what the scenario would be if that above accident had happened and the company were unable to provide risk assessments from the contractor on the basis that he didnt record them being a self employed person and thus less than five employees. Obviously the emphasis rests on the company to demonstrate how they determined the contractor competent to perform the task and in the absence if risk assessments this becomes difficult, but if the contractor had been working on the site for a number of years without incident, woudl that be adequate? Some how I doubt it. Ciaran that sound intriguing....
Ciarán Delaney  
#14 Posted : 07 August 2010 19:40:20(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

I could pm it to you and you'll see what the subbie tried to get past me.
JasonMcQueen  
#15 Posted : 07 August 2010 19:54:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JasonMcQueen

Please do.
JasonMcQueen  
#16 Posted : 07 August 2010 21:22:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JasonMcQueen

BTW, whats your view of the scenario I illustrated above? That is, demonstrating contractor competence in the absence of risk assessments due to the contracto having less than five employees? My view is that although technically it wouldnt be a breach of legislation as risk assessments are required to be recorded for companies with five or more employees the HSE would take a dim view that the company hadnt taken more stringent action to ensure the welfare of both the contractor and the companies own employees. Whether the HSE would determine that adequate to justify a prosecution Im not sure. The company could argue that due to the previous work performed on site without incident that the contractor was competent due to previous work.
RayRapp  
#17 Posted : 07 August 2010 23:03:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

'BTW, whats your view of the scenario I illustrated above? That is, demonstrating contractor competence in the absence of risk assessments due to the contracto having less than five employees?' It is a clever but technically wrong assumption by self-employed persons that they only have to record RAs if the employ five or more persons. The question remains that self-employed people are not an 'employer' unless they are a limited company. I suspect most are sole traders. Therefore regulations 3
RayRapp  
#18 Posted : 07 August 2010 23:19:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

'BTW, whats your view of the scenario I illustrated above? That is, demonstrating contractor competence in the absence of risk assessments due to the contracto having less than five employees?' A question remains whether self-employed people are an 'employer', unless they are a limited company. I suspect most are sole traders and therefore not an employer. MHSWR 3(2) states: Every self-employed person shall make a suitable and sufficient assessment of— (a)the risks to his own health and safety to which he is exposed whilst he is at work; and (b)the risks to the health and safety of persons not in his employment arising out of or in connection with the conduct by him of his undertaking, for the purpose of identifying the measures he needs to take to comply with the requirements and prohibitions imposed upon him by or under the relevant statutory provisions. How would a self-employed contractor evidence his RA without some of documentation? Furthermore, there is a good argument under the CDM Regs that the PC must ensure that contractors working under their umbrella are competent...how does one confirm this without reviewing contractor documentation? I think that despite various pieces legislation many self-employed workers slip under the radar when it comes to health and safety. There was a recent prosecution illustrated in SHP online regarding two self-employed roofers who did not take basic precautions to secure their safety. This type of case is unusual and of course they were given paltry fines. However, more case like this would certainly focus the minds of self-employed persons. Apologies for the previous posting - hit the wrong button. Ray
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