I'm interested in what responses you get here, SBH. The Kings Cross 'smoulderings' issue springs to mind where management got a tad fed up with all the fire incident reports that were generated by smoulderings that snuffed themselves out. They renamed them 'smoulderings' and they fell off the radar only to become significant after the terrble fire.

Some good advice given, incidentally the Kings Cross fire was primarily due to poor housekeeping – not the ignoring of smouldering’s'.

Poor Maintenance, Poor Housekeeping, Poor Management, Poor Equipment. It was a long list of Failings, as I recall!

Interesting bit attached, when the Fennell report into the fire was introduced to the House of Commons. I had forgotten that prior to the fire there were no barriers. Lot of it, the first bits are more relevant I think, but policiticians do go on. Worth a read though, if not all of it. http://hansard.millbanks...ross-fire-fennell-report Cheers Martin

As agreed with wizzpete, a whole lot of issues however, without the primary causes of waste build-up in the escalator motor room and live matches? Noted that if you go to a motor room on the underground these days you can eat your dinner off the floor!

You may well be correct.

SHB IMHO I would do the investigation the record it as a near miss as nothing grew from the smoulderings. As a matter of interest how close was the bin to the main building? If within 5 foot then a potential issue, if distance of across a road then very less so. Badger

Very interesting point!

Live and let live, or live and let die?

A fire is a fire! It should be investigated and actions taken if necessary.

As usual spot on Messy Chris, what of those NHS sites with psychiatric units where the patients want to smoke? Saying no can often lead to serious assaults from psychiatric patients whose desire for a cigarette overwhelms their understanding that they are not allowed to have what they want. Not that easy to say no, knowing what it could result in. Not saying it is right, ie to allow patients to smoke on site, but the other staff require our protection too.

Often patients might be in hospital for day (even weeks) so asking a potential smoker to stop for that time would only add to their stress and anxiety at would would already be a stressful time. probably most smokers or ex smokers would understand this better but i know my dad struggles to sit on a plane for 5 hours with out a cigarette no because he would necessarily smoke a lot in 5 hours but the tress of flying and going on holiday would make his need greater and the link to smoking and relieving stress are closely linked in the smokers mind. I guess seeing doctors and nurses standing outside a hospital smoking isn't the message the NHS wants to give across. Phil

The NHS blanket ban on smoking can cause unexpected secondary issues. In the hospital where I used to work - where Hospital Boy still is and is going from strength to strength - has a psychiatric unit. Only those patients are allowed to have a cigarette, supervised, RA completed etc, yada yada. Trouble is, those hundreds of members of the public who use the site as a short cut know this, and cross the road to avoid the psych patients. The site is Victorian, cobbled, single lane, designed for horse drawn coach. When people cross the single lane road, due to the curve in the road next to the psych unit, they have at times been nearly knocked down by vehicles. I am not a psychiatric practitioner and will not a medic how to do their job. That is what I was alluding to above. There are just some issues which may not have been foreseen.

Don't even get me going on the issue of mental health care and smoking. :( I worked for many years advising three mental health trusts on fire safety matters (including the Victorian Buildings that Martin mentions above) and have found that the smoking ban has been mismanaged from day one by the NHS. The percentage of the community with mental health issues who smoke is much greater than the general community and it's reasonable to expect that whilst under stress, the urge to smoke is even greater. The Govt smoking ban, plus the numerous PCTs and NHS Trust site smoking bans, have in many cases simply driven smoking 'underground' to locations where the risk cannot be adequately controlled. In some sites, nursing staff spend a great deal of their valuable time escorting patients to smoking areas or chasing patients who disregard the rules. As a result patient care is suffering. Meanwhile the NHS produce a report which claims(spins) the whole smoking ban has been a success (yeah right!). Meanwhile in prisons it's a smoke-as-much-as-you-like environment. Indeed, the BRE recently conducted research on water mist systems for prisons to help control this risk. (No such research for NHS sites though) So we have a society which bans ill people from smoking but allows criminals to do so. Is it just me that thinks this policy is just plain wrong????