Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
bilbo  
#1 Posted : 11 August 2010 14:02:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

The scenario - our neighbours engaged the services of a tree surgeon to take down a dangerous tree today & the guys arrived and in a MEWP proceeded to take the down the tree including overreaching our boundary and an access road and pedestrian walkway in our premises. No prior contact was made with us and no traffic or pedestrian protection was in place. We stopped the work briefly whilst we contacted the "office" of the tree surgeon and was told in no uncertain terms that the work would would continue and if we didn't like it - to report them. OK colleagues - what next?
bob youel  
#2 Posted : 11 August 2010 14:29:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

reference """we contacted the "office" of the tree surgeon"""; by that comment do you mean the office of the employers of the arborists or the local council arborists as if it was the local council I am supprised at the rsponse -please provide details and you can stop work that goes over your property in many circumstances
chalkleyrg  
#3 Posted : 11 August 2010 14:36:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
chalkleyrg

Personally, If you have had no joy in speaking to them, take photos and call your local 'elf 'n' safety inspector...
Ciarán Delaney  
#4 Posted : 11 August 2010 14:42:05(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Have you contacted your local council? Is the access road a public highway or private? Was foul language used, if so, thats a breach of Section 5, Public Order Act and the police are obliged to arrest and process the party.
grim72  
#5 Posted : 11 August 2010 14:42:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

I think they may be classed as trespassing, I believe that if workers are working above your land (even if they are not physucally on it) then they must apply for a license and agree arrangements with yourself. The link below may be of interest - although this relates to a crane jib above someone's garden I imagine the same principles would apply for the MEWP? http://www.lifting-world...ve/topic.php?topic_id=77
bilbo  
#6 Posted : 11 August 2010 14:45:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

Bob, no mention was made of "local authority" so I am not too sure what you mean. The tree surgeons were a local company engaged by our neighbours direct. chalkleyrg - Yeah, we took some photos, the complete lack of PPE is interesting as is the bloke with a rake standing in our property - doing what I'm not too sure!
Ciarán Delaney  
#7 Posted : 11 August 2010 15:08:29(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

If he was in your land and you have a photo, get on to the local nick and ask for your neighbourhood officer to call in to you. Or call to the station and make a formal complaint.
Ciarán Delaney  
#8 Posted : 11 August 2010 15:11:39(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

part of the last comment was lost. Go to the police and complain about trespass. You own the air above your property (believe it or not) and I would also (as another poster stated) contact the local HSE Inspector and request their attendance. Also speak to the traffic unit in your local nick if members of the public are being forced into the carriageway.
Fletcher  
#9 Posted : 11 August 2010 16:20:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Fletcher

Afternoon, Agree with the contact your local HSE Inspector, it may depend on the quality and amount of photos you as to progress. If using a chainsaw then IMO, PPE should have been chainsaw boots, trousers and gloves. Hard hat with integral visor and ear defenders or seperate ear & eye protection. Upper body protection ranged from hi-viz vests to special protective jackets so difficult to comment on that. From your post it appears that no protection for third parties was taken which should interest your inspector and I would have thought the local police but not sure about the latter. Interesting to see what action your local inspector takes. Take Care
pete48  
#10 Posted : 11 August 2010 17:33:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

Trespass in the UK is a civil matter. http://www.trespasslaw.c...mmon_misconceptions.html Trespass "in the air" is also problematical, it is unlikely unless actual harm is caused that any redress would be gained from anyone. Responsibility for enforcing H&S law is with the appropriate enforcement authority. They will determine what action if any is required in this case. A simple factual written report to the enforcing authority about the actions of this company and ensuring as far as you can that anyone legally on your property is not harmed by the activity is all I would do. Keep a record of who, what, when just in case your company lawyers want to pursue a claim. p48
Canopener  
#11 Posted : 11 August 2010 19:17:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Some interesting responses!!! You don’t say whether you made contact with your neighbour or what kind of relationship you have with your neighbour. I agree that the response from the ’office’ was unhelpful and ’provocative’. Yes you may want to report this to the enforcing authority but don’t hold your breathe that it is likely to get much of a response from hem unless they have plenty of ’previous’. I suggest dealing with it in a professional and non confrontational way with your ’neighbour’. I personally see little value in going down either the trespass route and I certainly don’t think I would advocate the Police. Trespass is generally (not always) a civil matter that the Police are unlikely to want or be able to get involved in and their time is probably best used chasing ‘real’ villains. I suggest the answer to your questions lies in what you are seeking to achieve. Me? I would keep it in perspective. Report to the HSE, yeah probably but don’t hold your breathe. Report to the Police; no I don’t think so, I reckon they have better things to do. Talk to your neighbour and explain your concerns etc seems the route most likely to bear fruit as far as I can tell from what you have said. I see little point in being too confrontational about it.
PhilBeale  
#12 Posted : 12 August 2010 09:33:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

From memory you do have certain rights to gain access to a neighbours property to carry out repairs or maintenance to your own premises. Cutting the tree down might fall under this. Who's land was the tree on if the trunk is on the neighbours land then i guess they have the right to chop it down unless there is a protection order on it. Same if a tree over hangs you property you have the right to trim the tree back to the boundary but you have to return the cuttings to the neighbour, although i think this is more to do with the fact you might be nicking fruit of it which you don't own the neighbour does. I think you/we need to understand what you have an issue with:- I guess are you complaining because they have cut the tree down. They didn't inform you what they where doing. You are concerned how it was cut down from a H&S point of view. Phil
PhilBeale  
#13 Posted : 12 August 2010 09:41:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

You seem to have mentioned the contractors a lot what about the neighbours did you speak to them while the work was being carried out. The contractor is there to do a job not enter into a debate as to the rights and wrongs. As for risk to the public having someone control access to the path while the work was going on might be deemed suitable often pathways are closed during road works so you have to cross the road and use the one on the other side. So long as someone was ensuring members of the public where not at risk then i don't see that as a major issue. Also you state the tree was dangerous so potentially the neighbour has prevented the tree falling on your property causing damage or falling on to the road / path causing injury to the member of the public. Phil Phil
Clairel  
#14 Posted : 12 August 2010 10:06:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

I'm not sure where your complaint lies. Are you miffed you weren't consulted? Are you miffed they over reached your land? Are you miffed that they didn't cordon off the footpath and road? Would you have preferred that the 'dangerous' tree was left in situ? Are you miffed you were told to mind your own business? Sounds a little to me like grumpy neighbour syndrome to me. Hey I'm impressed that they used a MEWP and you didn't mention lack of PPE and bad chainsaw practice so I'm assuming that was alright. So for a tree surgeon that's quite impressive!! I have a philosophy of ignoring H&S issues related to work done on my neighbours properties to prevent neighbour disputes. In fact I generally don't poke my nose into anything I see unless I'm asked to (a subject that's been debated many times on this forum). I gather the work is over now? There were no accidents? Just forget it and save your neighbour relationship. There are other battles to be fought.
Ciarán Delaney  
#15 Posted : 12 August 2010 10:13:03(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Clairel, Read the posts again. He specifically states that there was a lack of PPE and states that he has photographs taken to back this statement up.
PhilBeale  
#16 Posted : 12 August 2010 10:21:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

Originally Posted by: Ciará Go to Quoted Post
Clairel, Read the posts again. He specifically states that there was a lack of PPE and states that he has photographs taken to back this statement up.
I think the issue is not with lack of ppe but the tree being cut down in the first place as the PPE was only first mentioned in his second posting which to me would mean that it was not his first or primary concern otherwise it would have been in the first posting. Also amazed they turned up with MEWP. i think all you could do at best is complain to the local authority as i wouldn't have thought it would fall under the HSE and if the trees surgeons belong to a governing body then report it to them with your evidence. otherwise not sure if there is a lot else you could do at the end of the day the neighbours have removed a tree that was dangerous and could have come down at any time causing injury or property damage. Phil
bilbo  
#17 Posted : 12 August 2010 14:02:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bilbo

Thankyou all for your helpful comments. As far as I am concerned this matter can now be closed.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.