Rank: Forum user 
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I was wondering if anybody could help me. I have just had my first primarily H+S role and one of my first duties is to risk assess a refurbished building. I have plenty of experience risk assessing but not of a refurbished building.
I was wondering is an egress window suitable for a commercial building just as it would be for a domestic premises? The building is 2 storeys and has a fire exit on the ground floor but has no means of escape from the first floor if the stairway becomes blocked. There would be no more than 14 people upstairs but it would consist of members of the public and children.
Thanks
D.
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Rank: Super forum user
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No it would not; as it is not for a domestic situation - its a fantasy saying that a window accessed by children etc in an emergency is the best way to go but that is life in some cases
If it is recently refurbished the local planning and fire permissions would have/ should have considered this area so view them first to get a base to start from
This is where real fire etc risk assessments and real manageemnt comes in as its not against the law to operate from a room etc that has only 1 way out -otherwise we would close up as a country
keep us posted
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks for the reply Bob, building regs have not been invited to sign off the building yet until the contractors finish the snag list. I went through the plans and it does not have any way to exit the top floor if the stairway is blocked, the architecht has stated that the windows need to be the size suitable for egress windows. I am planning to get a more competent person in to complete the fire risk asssessment but I was trying to get my head around emergency procedures should the stairway be unaccessible. The building is for a charity to arrange meetings and workshops for vulnerable women and their families.
Thanks
Dewi
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Rank: Forum user
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Agree with Bob a window is absolutely not suitable. I would also go further and say dont expect the building control officer to give you all the answers either. If the building does require BC sign off its surprising they haven't been invloved earlier in the project! If you only have a single means of escape from the first floor, then you need to consider the travel distances from the furthest occupied points to the final exit. Depending on those distances you could then consider a protected means of escape or automated alarm systems. I would suggest you consult the Offices and Shops Guidance http://www.communities.g...ons/fire/firesafetyrisk2It has some good diagrams towards the back that may help you.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks Flukey, building regs have been involved but only with pouring concrete slabs on the ground floor.
Will have a look at the guidance now.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Flukey is right
If it's your only means of escape then you need to make sure that it's protected either by fire doors so smoke can't enter the stairwell or/ also automatic fire detection in the stairwell . also making sure the stairwell / landings are being used for storage or dump site as the stairwell should be a sterile environment nothing in it.
escape windows are out of the question how would somebody who is 60 be able to use them. You should be able to achieve what is required with one stairwell certainly buildings go well above just one floor with one stairwell. i would employee a fire safety consultant in to carry out your fire risk assessment which you need.
Phil
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks Phil
We have an electronic fire system (detectors and alarm) in place and the necessary fire doors. Have had a look at the plans and from the guidance supplied by Flukey we just come in within the fire escape distance from our furthest point upstairs. As I said I will get a professional in to complete the fire risk assessment, it was a part of my initial risk assessment.
Thanks for all the replies.
Dewi
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I have seen a fire safety risk assessment that suggested a rope ladder as a mean of escape from a first floor window.....
'Rope', as the HSE principal inspector I discussed this with said, 'burns',
John
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Rank: Super forum user
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Dewi
When calculating your travel distances you only need to calculate it from the furthest point to relative safety which would be your fire protected staircase not the final exit out of the building. i only mention it as you say you are just within travel distance which is a surprise as you only have one upper floor as you can imagine there are many buildings with more floors and only one staircase. so remember you only have to check travel distance to relative safety which would be a fire protected staircase.
Phil
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Rank: Forum user
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Phil
The reason I calculated the distance all the way to the bottom is the door at the bottom of the stairs is not a fire door (it has no spec in the architects plans). The stairs come down and the fire exit is about a metre away from the base, however there is a door to the left of the stairs which I thought should have been a fire door to protect the stairway. If it's shouldto be a fire door then a competent fire risk assessor will pick this up and I can get the door and frame changed.
Thanks
Dewi
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Rank: Super forum user
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I was thinking the door on the first floor not on the ground floor. so long as you have fire detection in the staircase and the lobby then there would be earlier enough evacuation time for everyone to get out. This taken from the guidance document:- "Figure 45 shows an acceptable layout for a two-storey premises with a single open stairway. The upper floor should accommodate no more than 60 people. The farthest point on each floor to the final exit is within the overall suggested travel distance for escape in one direction only" http://www.communities.g...ons/fire/firesafetyrisk2Page 89 Phil
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Rank: Forum user
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Phil
There is no door on the first floor the stairway opens out on to a long corridor with fire doors along it. I thought this was ok though?
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Rank: Super forum user
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It may very well be have you had a look at the link and the diagram or even just buy the book it's only £12 and full of useful information.
Phil
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Rank: Forum user
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I did look at the diagram and read the guidance with it, and will be getting a copy of the book for future reference. It was that diagram I used initially when I calculated the entire distance from the furthest point to the fire exit. So as far as I can see the escape route is within the limits of the guidance.
Thanks for all your help Phil, will get the Fire RA done professionally and will get a copy of the book for my shelf.
Dewi
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