Rank: Forum user
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Wondering if anybody has a similar scenario…
A number of our staff each morning work within 1-3 meters of a rivers edge manually pulling a rowing boat out to the river on a pulley system. They are on a slight gradient with no risk of fall from height, although it does tend to get slippery with weed, slime etc.
Looking back over the accident records there have been no reports of people falling into the water.
I am having mixed response on the wearing of lifejackets whilst working near the water’s edge and was looking for some advice on what others do.
The task takes around – 10-15minutes in all weather conditions. Throw lines are available within the area for staff to use at any time.
Thanks
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Rank: Forum user
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I don't have a similar scenario but.
You say that there have not been previous incidents of people falling into the water. How long have you been doing this task? I would say that the requirement for life jackets would be dependant on a full risk assessment. I would be looking to prevent the slips in the area, which would probably be the root cause of people falling in, also look at the manual handling aspect of it. How deep is the water and is there is there is any water current, suitability of shoes, training of staff etc. If following the RA I can see that wearing lifejackets doesn't improve the overall safety of the people performing the task, then I would rather do it without.
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Rank: Forum user
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This task has been in operation for over 20 years with no incident. Unfortunately the slip hazard will always be present due to the nature of the tidal river. We have increased our cleaning routine and used a natural agent to help break down the slime and weed but each tidal movement the slime / weed returns.
All staff have stout footwear and are trained in manual handling. In terms of risk whilst in the water there may be strong tidal flow at times but the depth ranges from ankle deep to over head high the further you walk down the gradient in the water..
It seems slightly overkill to have them on but others are arguing the fact....
Thanks for your help, much appreciated.
Jon
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Rank: Forum user
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Tricky one, because nobody wants overkill, but given that collective measures should always take precedent over personal measures, and that you should try to eliminate the risk of falling into the water in the first place, rather than then try to control what happens once a person has fallen in, have you given any thought to perhaps installing a small barrier/fence where the person is standing, so that they are physically prevented from falling into the water? Not sure if this would work though, as I don't know if the person is always in the same place carrying out the task or not.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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A good risk assessment will give you the answer - which will probably require the wearing of such kit
just a thought; are your enviromental permissions in place
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Rank: Forum user
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20 years x 228 days = 4560. So in approximately 4,500 instances of the operation you have not had anyone slip into water. Double that if they pull it back at night - multiply it if there is more than one boat.
Multiply it by the number of people involved in the task at a time.
Now take that figure and look at it in the context of how deep the water is at the bottom of the slope should someone slip.
If someone does fall into the water, there are throw lines (and a boat is part of the work being done).
Is a lifejacket still a proportional response to that number? If so, do it.
I like the grips, but it might cause other issues getting to and from the slope - I have often worn steel studs on hard surfaces and found it precarious. Better to sort out the slope if slips are a concern generally.
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Rank: Super forum user
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What if someone did fall and drowned.
Will you still question whether life jackets should have been issued?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Errr well you would have to seek to justify your risk assessment and risk management in place; as you would in any other scenario.
Neither HASAWA or the RA requirements of MHSWR require absolute safety.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Not sure of this is relevant, but the Rail Industry had a standard covering working over water which laid down the conditions when a boat was needed and what safety equipment such as life jackets etc ad to be provided. I think this is posibly a bit OTT as if someone fell from the Forth Bridge they would probably be dead upon impact with the water anyway but of course there are many other locations where this would not happen so perhaps there issome justification in exploring this further.
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Rank: New forum user
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The argument seems to be about a proportionate response to a perceived low risk. The likelihood seems to have been discussed but not the most likely outcome of falling.
The workman will, in this country, be well dressed up against the elements in inclement weather - I don't know if any of the respondents is a lifesaver or not but the clothing would quickly become waterlogged and dramatically hinder the ability to get back onto his/her feet. Wet clothing will make rapid movement to a safe place quite difficult. If the individual has slipped there is also a reasonable probability that they will suffer an injury, further increasing the difficulty of getting out.
If you have tried wading in a current you will have found that knee deep water flowing even quite slowly will 'take your feet away' easily without clothing.
You also stated a 'lifejacket' should be worn. Unlike a bouyancy aid - clumsy and large - a lifejacket is often no bigger than a rolled scarf, operates automatically and is designed to prevent you drowning even if unconscious. It would prevent you from swimming ashore (hence the need for rescue ropes) but would enable you to be hauled ashore and will float you even if you are fully dressed. A good lifejacket is not likely to get in the way and takes seconds to put on - not a bad precaution to prevent a potentially lethal outcome.
You can be safe by design or safe by luck but luck always runs out in the end.
drowning
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Rank: Super forum user
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Errr...........if the task involves using a pulley, why not move it further from the water, and/or build a barrier around the point of activity? Heirarchy of controls and all that.....have you considered eliminating some of these problems?
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Rank: Forum user
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I do sea fishing and when im fishing off the rocks i wear a floatation suit its an all in 1 and does nt get to hot even in fine weather,an dont cost to much.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would look at it as this, how quickly does the water decline away from the waterline, basically how far do you need to walk out into the water before you are at waist depth or worse does it suddenly drop off a couple of metres in, then i think life jackets of some sort would be advisable or can you walk out for several metres and still be only at waist depth.
So if someone did slip up would they be beyond helping themselves within a couple of metres of the shoreline (beyond waist depth) or would they just be ankle deep. Although you have throw lines have you given instructions on there use and what you should do if you fall in the water (example taking clothing off that may drag you down) also training on how to help someone who has fallen in (using the throw line rather than jumping in after them).
maybe a basic training on life safety might be needed as well but i think if they are unlikely to get out of there depth quickly then life jacket might be over kill. it would be a bit like wearing a life jacket when weeding around the 2 ft deep garden pond overkill for the risk.
Phil
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Rank: New forum user
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I’d suggest you need to base your final decision on a structured risk assessment, but remember a history of no past events is no reassurance it won’t happen in the future!
Other factors to consider as part of your risk assessment could inlcude: the ability to recover from water is significantly impacted by the cold water exposure, clothing has a huge impact on a persons ability to recover themselves from water, the slippery surface of the river would make it difficult for an individual to ‘find their feet’, what are the river currents like?, throw lines are a useful tool but not easy to throw accurately particularly in high winds, means of communicating to seek assistance etc.
The Royal Lifesaving Society (RLSS) has some useful information including details of training courses which are designed for workplaces which are near water - ‘Emergency Response – Open Water’.
The RLSS may also be able to give guidance on lifejackets/buoyancy aids.
Hope this helps ….
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