Rank: Forum user
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Can anyone advise on the requirement for Fire Extinguishers? Our managers want to reduce the amount of extinguishers in all our premises (a cost saving exercise due to the high maintenance cost).
I am unsure if legally, we are required to have them. If so, which legislation covers this? I would think that it is down to risk assessment for the Responsible Person to decide if they are needed. Can you Fire experts give a definitive answer please?
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Rank: Super forum user
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The requirement for fire extinguishers will come from your fire risk assessment. The current level of cover may/should be written into your most recent fra?
I suspect this will be another interesting debate.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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Smith,
Chris is bang to rights (he usually is on fire matters); it does depend on the findings of your fire safety risk assessment. However, you would be mistaken if you just looked at your workplace and made a rough guess based on nothing more than your own experience and knowledge. There is guidance available, such as that on the Fire and Resilience web-pages of the Department of Communities website, and your risk assessment really has to take official guidance into account.
The law in question, since you ask, is the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, you can find it on goevernment databases and it is available free for downloading. Article 13 of this order says
'the responsible person must ensure that—
(a) the premises are, to the extent that it is appropriate,
equipped with appropriate fire-fighting equipment and with fire
detectors and alarms
Appropriate is the key word here, and that's where you risk assessment findings come in, but as I have said, those assessment findings must be based on applicable guidance, even if in your assessment you make a decision not to accept that guidance.
Your assessment has to be carried out by a competent person, and there isn't an agreed definition of what a competent person is. You may need to get outside help,
John
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Rank: Super forum user
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I think getting rid off something due to cost that is there for H&S reasons is not the best way to approach the issue. maybe look at changing maintenance company especially or look to get another quote to see if you can get your current company to drop there prices.
You will always need fire extinguishers and probaly the most costly bit is getting the company on site then they just charge a small amount for each one that needs servicing. How many do you have on site?
Depending on the amount you are paying and the size of the site it might be cheaper to send an employee on the fire extinguisher serving course then you could undertake the servicing in house but i think you would need a lot of fire extinguisher before that would pay for itself.
A lot of companies now replace fire extinguisher that have reached there 5 or 10 year service inspection with new ones as opposed to inspecting and re-filling them may be finding a company that inspect and re-fill would be more cost effective it certainly is possible for water and foam and potentially co2 or at least to do a service exchange so you get a used fire extinguisher in place of your one that requires the extensive inspection but still has 5 year or 10 years inspection regime.
Note: all fire extinguishers still require annual inspection.
Phil
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Rank: Super forum user
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Cost cutting and fire safety…?
Smith24525, you must get a suitably competent professional to undertake your fire risk assessments.
You only have to look at the recent cases such as Marks & Spencer and the Coop to ascertain how important this is.
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Rank: Super forum user
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You may want to check the small print in your buildings/fire cover insurance. If they stipulate that you will comply with a particular code or British Standard, then you will have to either follow the standard/code.
In many cases, the insurer's requirements are in excess of regulatory requirements.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Good thinking Jay. Smith also check to see if the building has a fire cert, this will again stipulate what you must have in terms of minimum (legal) requirements.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks to all postings. Some food for thought there.
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Rank: Super forum user
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freelance safety wrote:Good thinking Jay. Smith also check to see if the building has a fire cert, this will again stipulate what you must have in terms of minimum (legal) requirements.
What is a fire cert?
Since the introduction of the fire safety order any fire certificate ceases to have any effect.
I would say, however that any fire certificate will be a good starting point as it was probably issued by the authority that now enforces fire regulations.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chris, I was having a blond moment. I'm also showing my age....lol!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Look out for the blonde health and safety people now :-)
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Rank: Forum user
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I may be showing my age now, but I believe that fire certificates are no longer valid. Also (and it may very well be a moot point), doesn't the legislation require employers to provide a means for fighting fire - sorry, that point has been covered.
Things must be bad if it's a cost issue - you only need to have them thoroughly inspected every 12 months, and it's not that expensive. Plus, you could train someone to do it in-house which may offer a saving.
There is a british standard which discusses the locations of fire extinguishers. If you really need it and ask nicely I'll have a dig around next time I'm in the office.
A
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Rank: Super forum user
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Worked for a company that had fire extinguishers because it is a legal requirement to have them, did not train anyone to use them, in fact discouraged anyone using them because the first priority was people safety and folowed the evacuation process by ensureing everyone was out of the building to the assembly point and left the fire for the fire brigade (trained for this task) to deal with the fire and any damage was repaired under insurance. Bad way possibly but no one was killed or injured.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Please don't start the debate whether employees should be trained or not this one has been done to death and it always end in arguments or the topic getting locked.
Phil
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Rank: Super forum user
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What does the manager think is high cost.
We're currently paying £4 an extinguisher with £1 for a Fire Blanket.
We have in the region of 150 extinguishers over 11 depots.
I might have found somewhere to do it for £3.50.
If we can reduce either the cost or the number of extiguihers we will, but not if it puts any staff in danger.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Following my blond moment, thanks Chris.
I was discussing the issue of cost with a manufacturer who has been in the business for over 40years. I was reliably informed that retrospectively the cost of buying and maintaining extinguishers in today’s market has never been cheaper.
The reason for this is that they are predominately manufactured in China and the assembly is done within the UK, this keeps the costs to an all time low.
Smith, go back and check if you did have a fire cert and utilise this to address your requirements. If not check with your extinguisher providers, they often have an in-house expert who can offer advice with little or no cost.
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Rank: New forum user
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be aware times have changed considerably since fire certs , do not base your provison on them.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Dan, as has been already said, to use the fire cert (if they have one) as a starting point.
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