Rank: Super forum user 
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A national stairlift company refuses to install a stairlift because it has risk assessed that the user cannot use it alone even though the person has stated that he is using a carer at all times to assist his transfer. He thus has no stairlift and his carer is forced to move him up and down stairs manually.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user 
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And people wonder why H&S gets a bad name.....
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Rank: Guest
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Without knowing the full details, I am presuming that the disabled person lives alone and has a carer visit during the day.
If that is the case, then at night if there was an emergency, the disabled person would be unable to use the stairlift to exit the building on his own, I can see the stairlift companies point of view.
And from a completely different point of view, having worked in that industry, there is no way a company would turn away a sale unless it was absolutely necessary.
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Rank: Super forum user
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But surely if the disabled person was alone and didn't have a stairlift then they still wouldn't be able to escape!!
Not knowing all the details then it's a difficult one to call.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Why is the stairlift company doing the RA in this case? I would have expected it to be an OT assessment,
John
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Rank: Guest
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One of the few details available states that the disabled person cannot use the stairlift alone and requires the help of a carer, I can only presume that the company involved must have been involved in a previous event, and therefore refused to install the stairlift for that reason.
I have on more then one occasion been called out to a break down of a stairlift, and on those occasions the disabled person has been stuck either upstairs or downstairs for days on end before a repair could be carried out. So its clear stairlifts were sold to disabled people living on their own in the past.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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How does the disabled person get up/down stairs at present?
Would that system still be available to use even with the stairlift installed?
If so no problem.
I also ask why the installation company are concerned risk assessing the end user, as already mentioned that is the role of the OT. Or is this a purchase without any OT involvement?
The installer should just be concerned with the employee who is installing.
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi,
Sounds like its getting to the stage where the disabled person will have to consider living/sleeping downstairs or moving to a bungalow.
Regards
Steve
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Rank: Super forum user
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Stephen I think that's the answer but not as easy as you may think. If the person owns the property there is the selling and buying issue, if council accommodation no guarantee that other premises will be suitable.
There is a DFG available but even they are hard to get.
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi,
Then sleeping/living downstairs is probably the answer, and possibly increasing the frequency of carer visits; from my experience this progresses to the disabled person living in one room with carers lifting/hoisting from bed to chair in the morning and chair to bed in the evening with 2 or 3 visits through the day.
Regards
Steve
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Rank: Super forum user
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It looks like you are trying to take away any independance this person might have right now, and reduce the size of the living space. Surely it should be the other way round?
I do agree that ground floor accommodation is desirable but not at the expence of independance.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I, for one, would be interested to see the evidence that the company has refused an installation on that basis. I wonder if we are getting the full picture!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Just to clarify the matter a bit as I have got some more info.
The carer is the spouse and she currently uses a stairclimbing chair but this is getting to physically demanding and as they are on benefits the option of a bungalow is rather remote. Even social housing do not not altogether work for the disabled I am afraid.
This attitude is not just suppliers as I do know of other people refused a DFG because the OT believed that they could not rely on the carer being present even though it was the spouse. The same people however have taught him how to move himself from wheelchair to bath using a transfer board and carer to assist - exactly the same operational task as stairlift chair to wheelchair and reverse.
Believe it or not I am believed by them also in my own case to be incompetent at undertaking any form of risk assessment even though I undertook these when I was in full time practice for nursing and care homes.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Could be that the stairlift company could be being wary of MHSWR Stating that all equipment manufactured and distributed must be H&S tested and assessed. Or HSWA S6
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Rank: Super forum user
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Ken
These were part of my original thinking but these assessments are limited to the point of installation but anticipate that proper use procedures are the role of the purchaser - providing of course the equipment is capable of proper use. My connversation with the company seemingly points to an avoidance of liability issue but there was absolutely no flexibility in their approach.
Bob
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Rank: Forum user
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Irrespective of the stairlift company refusing on "H&S" grounds, from the information on the forum it would appear that a thorough OT assessment be undertaken as the carer is having difficulty in moving the disabled person. Either the existing building be adapted to provide downstairs sleeping accommodation or they be rehoused to special housing.
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Rank: Forum user
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I thought the carer was the spouse of the person? There is a danger of 'officialdom' taking over here; this couple want a stair lift to make their lives a bit easier and it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do; they may not be able to move home (as has been mentioned) or indeed why should they? How would you feel if someone told you that you had to leave your home of 'x' years because some 'official' somewhere thinks they know what's best for you?
Risk assessments remember should also consider human factors, not just the physical and I fear this has been forgotten or omitted for some wider purpose of refusal to meet a budgetery requirement.
I apologise if my tone appears off for a Friday; bears a resemblance to a similar personal situation
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Rank: Super forum user
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JDE
I was not looking for solutions here necessarily but it is perhaps pertinent to have the following points in mind.
a) The husband is 49 with two late teenage boys and a daughter; the boys help get him up and down stairs each day
b) He had an accident in which his back was broken
c) Because he earns a slightly above average salary then the disabled facilities grant is not payable
d) the OT has suggested a stairlift or through floor lift
Like wizzpete this is close to home for me and one really has to question where organisations are at as they place themselves above the client who is paying them good money (£5k +) to provide equipment to make life easier to manage. Should we really expect a 5 person family to sacrifice a room just because one of them is disabled or for the husband to go into permanent care? Would you do so in the same position?
The whole issue troubles me deeply asa does the variability in approach across the coutry in OT provision and the local attitudes of such people that seems to reflect some internal and local PCT stance rather than purely the needs of the person. For me this case reflects the dangerous misuse of risk assessments by persons or bodies who have little or no real understanding of the purpose of such assessments
Bob
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