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Clairel  
#1 Posted : 21 September 2010 18:37:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Don't normally ask for examples of documents but want to get some ideas to put together my own template. Basically FM have asked about what they should do about RA's and MS's when there is a rush job (ie something is broken and needs fixing asap) and contractors have to come on site last minute and do a quick in and out turnround. Often the contractors won't have RA's or the like for this type of job. Does anyone have examples or info on somethng we can give the contractors to fill in in these circumstancs? Any help greatly appreciated.
simonmillward  
#2 Posted : 21 September 2010 20:52:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
simonmillward

Clairel They should have generic RAMS which cover most aspects of there work which they undertake, i have a template for a site specific risk assessment or dynamic risk assessment you can crib to suit the type of work which will be a bolt on to the generic. PM me if you need anything Simon
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 21 September 2010 23:10:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I would respectfully suggest that you challenge this presumption of "rush" jobs requiring a circumventing normal SSoW. In FM all breakdowns, damage, leaks etc. are reasonably foreseeable and can be catered for within routine risk assessment considerations. The more unusual reactive issues tend to rest with the client/occupier who has to work-around a lack of power/IT/water or fire alarm/detection systems. A risk of bypassing asbestos protocols is an obvious pitfall.
Clairel  
#4 Posted : 22 September 2010 08:32:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Ron we are the client. FM don't do the work themselves they manage the contractors activities. Therefore we don't do the RA but want to have a template avaiable for rush jobs where the contractor comes on site with nothing.
Heather Collins  
#5 Posted : 22 September 2010 08:44:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

Claire - I used to use a "temporary works assessment" template, which was designed for exactly this situation. PM me if you want me to send you a copy. Ron - with respect there will always be unforeseen situations in maintenance which require a fast response. I agree the job is never too urgent to carry out some sort of risk assessment, but sometimes there just won't be a detailed SS0W and method statement available and a dynamic assessment using a generic template which asks the right questions may be perfectly adequate.
bob youel  
#6 Posted : 22 September 2010 08:44:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Generally when something needs fixing as a rush job [or almost any other job!] the need is something that is foreseeable so whilst the physical on site job may need quick action the background works where foreseeability is evaluated and management arrangements are put in place should be undertaken at the point of or before issuing a contract to undertake the work so at least 80% of all situations should already be accounted for and your subbies etc should already have appropriate documentation etc in place; unless your rush job contracts are issued at the point of need, which I doubt, as your subbies will have some sort of maintenance/call-out agreement already in place before they send out people to repair. If you do not have pre drawn up agreements your costs will be very high and you will have no real control So in my view rush job or otherwise you should know what you are getting for your £ and there should be very few supprises!
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 22 September 2010 11:03:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

A part of the point I was making (poorly) is that there is often as much onus on the client in occupied buildings to plan and react appropriately in these "emergency" situations so as to ensure mutual safety. I do tend to hark back to the basic tenet of risk assessment and reasonable foreseeability - as enshrined in the Management Regs (paragraph 18(c) of L21 ACoP), this applies as much to the employer/occupier as to any contractor. Of course, there's the old chestnut: Describe to me something that could happen that wouldn't be reasonably foreseeable...............! Having said all of that, I would not always be looking for a comprehensive written SSoW/ Method Statement for every FM activity. As Bob says, in our line of work, life should not be full of surprises!
boblewis  
#8 Posted : 22 September 2010 11:31:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

We need to remember also that most accidents tend to occur in "one off" situatiuons and thus more care is required in assessing the situation. Even with simple tasks it is possible, I contend, to develop a risk assessment and one would expect an FM company to have done this during the selection of their work contractors. If not perhaps one should be reviewing the FM contractor themselves. It is not a question of generic risk assessment but rather a Task Assessment coupled to a properly used system of Dynamic RA and I use this term to mean a process of DRA undertaken by trained operatives. I have used this approach for instrument servicing engineers and have not yet found the need to use a Generic Assessment or an Emergency Template. I would repeat that a challenge to the FM contractor is needed. I am sure a number of us can assist more formally if required if you feel in need of more detailed support Bob
firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 22 September 2010 11:38:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

This could be a case for an "Emergency Procedure" where the engineer attends the "rush job" and carries out certain actions to make everything safe, main stop cock, isolate electrics/gas etc. then allows the dust (or water) to settle while doing the required risk assessment. More haste less speed comes to mind.
redken  
#10 Posted : 22 September 2010 12:22:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
redken

Is this the sort of rush job in question? http://www.telegraph.co....arena-roof-caves-in.html
Muiryden  
#11 Posted : 22 September 2010 12:45:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Muiryden

For this type of "non-routine" simple task we use a blank method statement form which can be filled in by hand and we have a "minute risk assessment" form (checklist that takes a minute to complete the form and identify the controls). I can supply copies of either if you PM me an e-mail address.
JYoung  
#12 Posted : 22 September 2010 13:07:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JYoung

You can get POWRAs (Point of Work Risk Assessments) they come in a little booklet which are 2 sides of a page with 4 sections to complete. These work alongside the normal Risk Assessments so that if anything alters or comes up during work then you simply complete one and attach to original RA. Have a look on net as not able at present to find out where we obtain them from.
SBH  
#13 Posted : 22 September 2010 14:58:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Send me your email address and I will attach a form that may be useful SBH
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