This will probably have been done to death. In an environment like an office block, school etc is a bar of soap suitable. What is the main reason for using liquid soap? Do we get the same level of clean hands regardless of bar or liquid? Son of Skywalker.

Bars of soap used by more than one person may transmit bacteria and thus encourage cross infection. The bar of soap will be moist from the last user - who may have gastroenteritis. In fact, where cross infection is a real issue there is now increasing use of no-touch soap dispensers so as to remove even the potential for cross contamination through more than on person touching the dispenser. Liquid soap is less easy to take away from the washbasin. Bar soap can easily 'wander'. Chris

Badger Why not go the whole hog and fit infra-red operated taps? These only provide water when the hands are directly in front of them. You will find them on many continental motorway service stations. I persuaded a client to fit these and, despite some concern about the cost, they did so to find that they quickly saved their extra cost in the saving of water. Furthermore, they discovered that maintenance of taps and time for cleaning were also reduced. Furthermore, since hands should only be washed in lukewarm water and the system came with a thermostatic valve to control water temperature the standard of skin care was also improved. Chris

Dave Why anti-bac soap? Various studies have shown that in practical use these have no real benefit and may actually be counter-productive. For example: In a study comparing sanitisers and antiseptic hand soap, the conclusion was that even after a skin contact time of 2 minutes the antiseptic soap showed no greater effect than washing the hands with plain water. Lages SS, Ramakrishnan MA, Goyal SM, In-Vivo efficacy of hand sanitisers against feline calicivirus; a surrogate for norovirus, Journal of Hospital Infection, 2008, 68 and “ A systematic review of the evidence has not revealed any compelling evidence to favour the general use of antimicrobial hand-washing agents over soap, or one antimicrobial agent over another.” From: “Healthcare associated infections, a guide for healthcare professionals”, issued by BMA, February 2006 Most actives in these antibacterial skin cleansers require a minimum of one minute contact time to have any real effect. In reality almost no-one will wash for this length of time. Most hospitals now only use normal liquid soap for hand washing. Chris

quote=Chris.Packham]Badger Why not go the whole hog and fit infra-red operated taps? These only provide water when the hands are directly in front of them. You will find them on many continental motorway service stations. I persuaded a client to fit these and, despite some concern about the cost, they did so to find that they quickly saved their extra cost in the saving of water. Furthermore, they discovered that maintenance of taps and time for cleaning were also reduced. Furthermore, since hands should only be washed in lukewarm water and the system came with a thermostatic valve to control water temperature the standard of skin care was also improved. Chris

Barrie Sorry I have not responded sooner, but have been in Germany all this week so far on a EU project to reduce the incidence of skin disease among hairdressers! Whether bacteria or viruses, the comments I made regarding anti-bacterial skin cleansers still hold true. I actually had the chance to discuss this at Osnabrueck University with the very high powered team that they have in the dermatology department there and they agreed. With extremely limited exceptions there is no justification for anti-bacterial skin cleansers. I will need to check on the information regarding the infra-red operated taps as I don't have the data on my computer any more. Will see what I can do and hopefully will be able to get back to you. Chris

To be honest I'd go along with Chris, you'd be hard pressed to get better advice. Chris knows his stuff in fact get hold of one of his books, Essentials of Occupational Skin Management, ISBN1 85988 045 2. It's an easy read and very informative. I've used Chris a couple of times over the years to successfully resolve issues.

Re dispensers as a source of contamination: Yes, you do have to touch the dispenser (unless, of course, you are using one of the new 'no touch' dispensers where a sensor dispenses the soap without you having had to touch the actual dispenser) but the part you touch is not the same as touching a bar of soap in which the micro-organisms can reside and multiply. Re hand washing: If you wash your hands and rinse them properly, then you should have removed almost all the transient micro-organisms. Yes, one important fact is how you wash your hands. Most people have never been taught to wash their hands correctly and miss critical areas. In fact, when confined to a hospital bed back in 2008 I was able to watch nurses washing their hands. It was clear that in a two week period almost none did it correctly. Most applied the soap more or less correctly, but almost none rinsed adequately. Rinsing is actually as important as using the soap properly. If you don't rinse of all the soap, then (a) you haven't rinsed off all the dirt and micro-organisms, and (b) you have left soap residue on the skin to continue to cause damage, enhancing the potential for dermatitis. Yet if you look at much of the guidance on skin cleanisng in the healthcare sector you get the impression that rinsing is almost incidental! Chris

Thanks for the input again. Chris you do know your stuff. Prior to moving into Health and Safety I was a Molecular Biology Lab Manager (worked my way up!). Aseptic technique was an extremely important part of he work so I guess I am coming from a different angle. Taking a step back a bit I would like to pose the same question from a slightly different angle. If you had children in a nursery, primary or secondary school would you be happy with a change from liquid soap back to bars of soap? Bearing in mind the soap we had in school when I was at school was that red coal tar soap. We survived it. Son of Skywalker

Hi Chris You are thinking along my lines. I did hear though that the Care Commission or HMI (one of them can't quite remember which one) recently were saying alcohol wipes/gel were not enough for an outdoor class where the kids spent the day in the wood learning. They were trying to say that alcohol did not kill all bacteria or viruses. The virologist I heard on Radio Scotland agreed that was the case but that the kids were far safer in the woods with the alcohol wipes than in a nursery class indoors full or sickness, cold, flu bugs etc. My wife is a nursery nurse and she brings home all sorts and happily spreads it around. I can see in this cost cutting era that a retrograde step may be taken to save money (on paper).

Lets not forget, you do all the hard work and wash your hands after using the toilet, then hold the door handle to leave the toilet, coming into contact with all the bugs from the people that didnt wash their hands in the first place. Hey Ho!