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Police attitude to site accidents in the UAE
Rank: New forum user
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Has anybody experienced treatment by the police and enforcing body in the UAE regarding this . Is there any substance that safety officers/managers will be under more scrutiny by virtue of their job title.
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi John, yes I have as have many of my colleagues. I can tell you for definite that the police target the safety manager in the case of a serious accident or fatallity. I have a number of colleagues who are currently either being dealt with by the courts or have been found guilty and sentenced despite them having no real involvement in the incident.
The first question asked by the police on arrival is "where is the safety manager". This is primarily because they have a completely different mind set here in the UAE regarding safety professionals. We are viewed as "responsible" for safety and so if there is an accident then generally we will get our collars felt despite our SMS stating that the responsibility is firmly with the construction teams.
I have recently had a very serious accident in which a lump of concrete struck an operative on the head from a significant height and smashed it like a boiled egg. It took the police over a week to attend the scene and when they did arrive they wanted the safety manager. Fortunately I had returned to the UK the day the police arrived for a few days and so they took my safety engineer instead.
All of my colleagues are very concerned about the attitude of the authorities here to us in what is a very vulnerable position. The police seem to have no real consistent approach to accidents and certainly have little understanding of the concepts of risk managment.
Much pressure is placed on the safety teams by the companies and construction teams here generally. The projects are flooded with untrained and inexperienced labour who need our help to effectively stay alive whilst at work. They generally have no idea of the risks which they are exposed to and have a very lax attitude to safe working. Indeed, they will follow your instructions to the letter-they will happily use a harness with shock absorbing lanyard at any height-even 1m because they have been told by the construction team that they must use a harness at all times. They will happily clip to plastic pipes etc as well because they dont know better. There is a huge need for education and enforcement here from us safety professionals.
Anyway-in answer to your question-Yes we are under much scrutiny because of our job titles in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. It makes it a very uncomfortable place to be if you value your freedom and your passport
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Rank: Super forum user
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I’m aware of many of the very serious implications relating to working in the middle-east.
I personally think that many of us have technical information that is very valuable in the national and international market, but maybe not aware of the importance of that knowledge to others.
It would be beneficial if others could give a briefing of the do’s and don’ts of working in certain countries, addressing the hazards, protocols, local customs and financial constraints.
This could be invaluable for a person new to our profession. It would also highlight the perils of accountability in certain countries that most of the recruitment agencies remain blissfully silent about!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Soft .v. Hard
One thing people need to get to grips with is that we in the UK have a very soft approach to our prison's and other such areas in our criminal system for many areas inclusive of H&S breaches therefore if something does happen our sentences and the conditions that they are served in are very soft whereas other countries have a very hard approach
A person I know spent some time in a Spanish; never mind a middle / far eastern or American continent prison and he was badly affected thereafter irrespective of what happen inside. His misdemeanor was one that in the UK would not have reached a court never mind a prison!
My warning is that people need to fully understand their position before working abroad as in my days western Europeans were treated differently - that situation has changed
To quote one world leader 'we do not have as many laws as the UK but we enforce ours!'
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Rank: New forum user
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The question was :
Has anybody experienced treatment by the police and enforcing body in the UAE regarding this . Is there any substance that safety officers/managers will be under more scrutiny by virtue of their job title
but thank you for responding anyway.
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Rank: Forum user
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Barker30796 wrote:The question was :
Has anybody experienced treatment by the police and enforcing body in the UAE regarding this . Is there any substance that safety officers/managers will be under more scrutiny by virtue of their job title
but thank you for responding anyway.
I'd say that calum answered your question very well!
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Rank: Forum user
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Thank you John-one trys!
There have been some very good points raised in this thread and I think some have to be explored further especially for those of you who have not worked abroad before. A key point is that certainly in my case-i was not aware of just how vulnerable we in the HSE role are in the Middle East. A very good idea is for someone-maybe even me to explain some of the hazards and customs of working in this part of the world.
Without naming names as that is not fair-there have been a number of my colleagues greatly affected by the enforcement policy here-many of which are still going through the due legal process (if you can call it that). The number one suspect is always the person in the HSE role until you can persued the police otherwise. In reality the police here just want the case closed ASAP so they are very happy to nail the first convenient person/s. Covering your self here is an essential skill for self preservation and avoidance of cock roach infested Arab jails.
Having said all this-the opportunity to work in this part of the world is invaluable and will "set you up for life" in terms of the sheer scale of projects. For example I have 6000 operatives approximately on my project-that number is inconceivable to most of the UK on a single project but here is is the norm. With that comes all kinds of logistacal problems and other issues such as some of the ones I have had to deal with since being here e.g. male rape, riots, very serious accidents, daily fighting, assaults etc etc. I dont remember covering how to deal with a male rape during my NEBOSH studies?!!?
If anyone has any queries etc-please feel free to contact me.
All the best from the sand pit
Calum
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Rank: Forum user
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I have not personally experienced this but I have heard of many cases in the U.A.E where the HSE Professional is held accountable to the authorities for serious incidents. There is a generally a mindset that HSE staff are responsible for everyones safety, and that doesn't just apply to the police force, as the many managers and supervisors feel its not their responsibility but that of the HSE Dept. Therefore the police ask who's responsible and all fingers point to the safety guy! Unfortunately its guilty until proved innocent in U.A.E opposed to innocent until proved guilty.
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Rank: Forum user
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I have not personally experienced this but I have heard of many cases in the U.A.E where the HSE Professional is held accountable to the authorities for serious incidents. There is a generally a mindset that HSE staff are responsible for everyones safety, and that doesn't just apply to the police force, as the many managers and supervisors feel its not their responsibility but that of the HSE Dept. Therefore the police ask who's responsible and all fingers point to the safety guy! Unfortunately its guilty until proved innocent in U.A.E opposed to innocent until proved guilty.
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Rank: Forum user
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You are absolutely spot on Chris, it is true theat vthe mind set here is to blame the safety guy as he is considered to be responsible for all safety metters. It is a very hard task here to change that mind set unless you have the support of some one senior in the organisation who understands the recognised Western way of risk management.
Onwards and upwards must be the cry..........
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Rank: Forum user
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Calum, correct. I was the safety guy there when I first started out, and it is a stressful job to say the least as all issues related to safety are dealt with by the safety dept, unless like you said you have that support further up the food chain.
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Rank: Forum user
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Calum, correct. I was the safety guy there when I first started out, and it is a stressful job to say the least as all issues related to safety are dealt with by the safety dept, unless like you said you have that support further up the food chain.
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Rank: New forum user
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It seems that there is quite a way to go in the UAE to convince the authorities out here that pulling the safety first is quite wrong . Is this the only country in the world where this happens?
I wonder do the police arrest themselves when there is a road traffic accident ?
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Rank: Forum user
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Ha Ha Ha-very good question. I doubt it though i do think they make the rules up as they go here. No consistency and it all seems to depend on who you are dealing with. They even have posher cells here so you dont have to share with the labourers etc.....lol. Madness!
Regards from the sandpit.
C
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Rank: New forum user
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It is now 2015 and I have been back in the UK since Jun 2013. I write this as a warning to any HSE professional considering a career in the UAE.
On November 2009 whilst working in Dubai I was a HSE Manager on a construction site in Dubai. I was working on the Palm and was "responsible" for the management of health and safety of a workforce from 1500 to 6000 (yes 6000) on site at peak.
To cut a long story short a young worker was killed on site due to falling from height. I had put as far as I was aware all necessary controls in place to prevent a fall from height.
After the fatality I realised that a physical barrier had been removed to gain access to the area where this man sadly died. The word removed is perhaps tame as persons unknown had broken down a barrier which was lying in pieces to the entrance of the riser room to gain access.
The police come to site and straight away ask for who is in charge of safety.
This results in me being driven to the police station where my photo was taken and my passport taken from me which resulted in me not being able to leave the country for 9 months.
I had to go to work day in day out not knowing what might happen next.
I was summoned to go to court of the first instance where I was found guilty of the illegal killing of a worker and given a 2 month suspended jail sentence.
This is in spite of a letter being written by the company concerned admitting responsibility for the removal of the barrier and submitting this to my solicitor.
The family of the deceased from Bangladesh received their blood approx.£35K from my company and were visited by the company liaison officer. "They were very pleased with the money and were considering sending their next youngest across hoping that he would get killed as well"
I made arrangements to leave Dubai a month later and return to the UK.
So if a company offers you a position in the UAE in health and safety think seriously about it. I was never told about the pitfalls .
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Rank: Super forum user
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Barker30796 wrote:It is now 2015 and I have been back in the UK since Jun 2013. I write this as a warning to any HSE professional considering a career in the UAE.
On November 2009 whilst working in Dubai I was a HSE Manager on a construction site in Dubai. I was working on the Palm and was "responsible" for the management of health and safety of a workforce from 1500 to 6000 (yes 6000) on site at peak.
To cut a long story short a young worker was killed on site due to falling from height. I had put as far as I was aware all necessary controls in place to prevent a fall from height.
After the fatality I realised that a physical barrier had been removed to gain access to the area where this man sadly died. The word removed is perhaps tame as persons unknown had broken down a barrier which was lying in pieces to the entrance of the riser room to gain access.
The police come to site and straight away ask for who is in charge of safety.
This results in me being driven to the police station where my photo was taken and my passport taken from me which resulted in me not being able to leave the country for 9 months.
I had to go to work day in day out not knowing what might happen next.
I was summoned to go to court of the first instance where I was found guilty of the illegal killing of a worker and given a 2 month suspended jail sentence.
This is in spite of a letter being written by the company concerned admitting responsibility for the removal of the barrier and submitting this to my solicitor.
The family of the deceased from Bangladesh received their blood approx.£35K from my company and were visited by the company liaison officer. "They were very pleased with the money and were considering sending their next youngest across hoping that he would get killed as well"
I made arrangements to leave Dubai a month later and return to the UK.
So if a company offers you a position in the UAE in health and safety think seriously about it. I was never told about the pitfalls .
OMG........
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