We have recently had a false alarm at our premises where a call point was activated (on its own). The fire brigade was called via red care and our receptionist. So 300 people standing outside waiting for fire brigade. All went to plan. Fire brigade arrived 20 minutes later I had refused to let anybody back into the premises before they arrived. MD not very happy as he felt as we had established that it was a false alarm I should have let the people go back to work. Questions. 1/ Should I have allowed the people to go back to work once we had established that it was in fact a false alarm. 2/ Once a false alarm has been established is to reasonable to contact the fire brigade and let them know so as not to waste their time. Looking forward to your views on this matter. Malcolm

If I was sure it was in fact a false alarm, then I would have allowed people back in and would have called the fire brigade so that they did not waste their time. I would also ensure a agreed procedure is in place to avoid future disagreements with anybody on what should have been done.

One lesson I've learned is - once the evac is started, it MUST be completed - even if you find out more or less straight away it's a false alarm. Otherwise, you get people from outside (who know it's a false alarm) trying to get back in the same doors as people inside are trying to get out, and it's all horribly confused. If I was certain it was a false alarm - say someone had come up to me and said "sorry, I accidentally bashed the call point with my elbow", and I knew that call point was the only trigger, I'd let people back in then. And yes, I'd also notify the FB at that point. But if I was in any doubt whatever (say I was unable to confirm that an automatic fire detector hadn't been triggered at the same time), I'd let it run its course - although I'd expain that situation to the FB as soon as they arrived.

Firstly well done for carrying out a proper evacuation, I assume according to your fire procedure. Second - I worry about the attendance time of the fire brigade, this is due to the "second party" call out, but proving you should always evacuate when the alarm sounds. Third what type of call point operated "on its own"? Break glass/smoke/other? Fourth did you immediately know which point actuated? If so was it easy to investigate and conclude it was a false alarm? If it was evident that it was a false alarm you can instruct everyone to return. It's your premises and your employees and your fire alarm system. Also your fire risk assessment that decides the policy. If the MD is familiar with your procedures and he instructs a return then it is his head on the block.

I said... I've had a second thought about that - I'd notify the FB first, then if they said "OK we'll stand down", at THAT point I'd let people back in. If they said they were going to attend anyway I'd keep people out.

Some systems allow for a 2-4 minute silent alarm period to allow for investigation before the alarm system goes into a fall evacuation. this allows for nominated persons to identify the possible cause and also to prevent the fire brigade been called out unnecessarily., if it is a fire then the system can be set into fall alarm and fire brigade called. If it is identified as burning toast or accidental setting off MCP then no-one else need to be disturbed. Of course you need an addressable system so you can identify the precise location of the detector head as non addressable is just going to give you a zone which can be quite large to check. In some situation everyone evacuating due to a false alarm could ultimately cause a fire especially in factories where process and equipment may have been abandoned and proper shut-down procedures aren't followed. Phil

Interesting scenario and I wonder from the responses how many FRAs take into account this event occurring? I have to agree that a complete evacuation should take place regardless of whether it is a false alarm or not. The decision to return to the building should be taken by a 'responsible person' identified in your FRA, or the fire brigade - not the MD! If it can be clearly established that it is a false alarm, then I see no problem in contacting the FB and if they still wish to attend, so be it. Must go as I need to review my FRA...

We recently had a visit by Cambridgeshire Fire & Rescue to one of our hospices, and their advice was that we treat all alarms as real, and that in discovering a false alarm we should carry on treating it as real until we had advice from them. This was fine by me as it reinforced a conclusion I had already arrived at. They've done trials with cat flea collars to reduce thrips' causing false alarms, with quite staggering results, John

We recently had an evacuation where we new straight away it was a false alarm, we still carried out a full evacuation and the all clear wasn't given until the fire brigade gave the all clear. However we had a problem with the evacuation, we have several members of staff who need evacuation chairs to get out of the building, on our twice a year practice, these staff are given the choice of staying at their desks or joining in the evacuation, none of these staff take part, so when a real life situation happens they do not what to do, and the "buddies" haven't had practice in using the chairs. There was quite a lot of congestion on the stairs. I am of the opinion that these staff should have to join in at least one of the practice evacuations a year, however our estates team are insistent that they do not have to take part. sorry for digressing from the main point of this thread. your opinions please.

I think this goes back to assessing the risks. Clearly in a real fire the risk is very high. In a practice there is (probably) a risk - I have not used these chairs so not certain. You then have to balance the risks involved in the practice evacuation against the risks if nobody knows what to do in a real fire. Not an easy balance and only you will know the specific rtisks at your premises.

Ray would you not consider the MD to be the RP if he is the one responsible for the premises?

Just one point about the fire service attending and re occupying the building. It is the companies (or RP's) duty to make emergency arrangements. If this involves preparing a plan which allows for the safe, controlled re occupying of the building prior to the arrival of the fire service, then this is acceptable. It is not the fire service's role to prescriptively advise your company of the suitability of your emergency plan (by an operational crew upon arrival at such a call) unless they have had time to audit your systems including the FRA (say, by a fire safety officer following an inspection). As a matter of courtesy though, once you have called the fire service (most will not cancel once attending) , you should silence but not reset your fire alarm panel. This will assist the fire service in confirming your decision to reoccupy. Many (not all) operational fire service officers simply do not have a full understanding of the full range of evacuation procedures available. I have worked in premises where time related, time delayed, and horizontal evacuation procedures have been in place and had numerous 'lively discussions' with fire officers when they have criticised the lack of a full evacuation (despite no such evacuation being required). The fire service actually do not want to attend fire alarm calls (and in some cases, will not attend such calls) unless a fire is confirmed. For full details, I suggest you read this recently updated policy on 'unwanted fire signals' produced by the Chief Fire Officers Association. Upon reading these documents, you may wish to review your procedures. http://www.cfoa.org.uk/10863?not_logged_in=true

Ray this then begs the question - who is the RP? Whatever the definition the RP cannot be delegated to someone else. IMHO the RP would be the senior member of management if he is in control of the premises. It appears to me that Malcolm, who has asked this question has some authority in the H&S area but not in total control.

Chris, it is the decision of the originator of the RA, who may be the RP himself or it could be someone else, such as a senior fire warden. I do not believe the RP has to be a senior manager.

Fair point Messyshaw. Needless to say the employer must delegate someone to carry out the RA, identify control measures and nominate fire wardens etc. If not a responsible person per se, then a responsible...something.