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MrsBlue  
#1 Posted : 29 September 2010 11:23:01(UTC)
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Guest

1. Talking about young children biting each other - part of my work involves nurseries for young children. Over the last few weeks there have been about 5 or 6 instances of youngsters (aged about 2 / 3 ) biting each other in a fit of pique. These instances have all been recorded as accidents and parents informed of the circumstances. But, are they really accidents and should the instances be recorded some other way? 2. Youngsters walking around the play area with their arms in the air (for balance) fall over and sit down on their bottoms (we've all seen this at home with our own younsters). These instances are again being recorded as accidents. Should they be? Advice sorely needed because the nursery side has only been operational for a short while and these instances recorded as accidents are making the company's accident statistics appear alarming high. Rich
TSC  
#2 Posted : 29 September 2010 11:33:58(UTC)
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TSC

Hi Rich A lo of educational establishments I have encountered record accidents were an injury results from this and the minor fall from youngsters etc as a learning experience of which is recorded in a book (not accident book) but a red and black type book and information made available to parents otherwise they would have ended up with silly amounts. Regards Karel
johnld  
#3 Posted : 29 September 2010 11:54:34(UTC)
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johnld

We had a 100 place nursery on the HE campus which I used to work at. We had a similar arrangement to that outlined by Karel, where a separate book was kept for the type of incident outlined by Rich. The only time we recorded bites was if a member of staff was bitten. Simple falls were not put in the accident book unless it was considered that there was fault on the part of the nursery.
L McCartney  
#4 Posted : 29 September 2010 11:58:42(UTC)
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L McCartney

I would record bites as this is behavioural and technically an assault. Wouldn't take any other action than advising parents, following nursery procedures on behaviour and bullying.
johnld  
#5 Posted : 29 September 2010 12:02:02(UTC)
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johnld

I should have added that the book was always made available to the OFSTED inspectors.
Ken Slack  
#6 Posted : 29 September 2010 12:03:20(UTC)
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Ken Slack

Saw this the other day in the Metro, interesting for educational organisations!! http://www.metro.co.uk/n...ts-from-school-accidents
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 29 September 2010 23:51:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

The biting and similar are at best incidents - not accidents, as this behaviour is to be expected in that age group. Nursery protocols will no doubt dictate these are recorded and that's fine. I would not generally entertain the notion of assault, individual behavioural issue or bullying in the age group 2-3 years. Biting is something a great many 2 year-olds will try. Let's try not to attach labels to kids even before they get to Primary School. As for recording youngsters falling onto their bottoms when walking..........bizzare. Have to wonder what would go unnoticed whilst the nursery staff are busy filling in all those the reports!
Clairel  
#8 Posted : 30 September 2010 10:36:27(UTC)
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Clairel

ron hunter wrote:
The biting and similar are at best incidents - not accidents, as this behaviour is to be expected in that age group. Nursery protocols will no doubt dictate these are recorded and that's fine. I would not generally entertain the notion of assault, individual behavioural issue or bullying in the age group 2-3 years. Biting is something a great many 2 year-olds will try. Let's try not to attach labels to kids even before they get to Primary School. As for recording youngsters falling onto their bottoms when walking..........bizzare. Have to wonder what would go unnoticed whilst the nursery staff are busy filling in all those the reports!
Is biting to be expected???? Obviously I must have had a different childhood and raised my two childern differently because in no way in my life has biting by kids been expected or tolerated. But agree with others that making an incident report everytime a kid wobbles and falls would seem a little excessive and not something I have encountered in the nurseries I have had as clients.
Jane Blunt  
#9 Posted : 30 September 2010 11:04:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Is biting to be expected???? I think so, Claire, in the sense that this is within the spectrum of behaviour of normal children of that age. Expecting them and tolerating them are two very different things. Other behaviours include kissing snails, hitting one another, making puddles on the floor during toilet training, playing with poo, lying on the floor screaming, holding their breath, head banging, being unable to pronounce words properly or use proper grammar etc. We encourage children not to do these things and endeavour to ensure that some of these behaviours stop as quickly as possible! However, they are still within the normal range of behaviours of the age-group. My children did not do all of the above, thankfully, but I have seen all these behaviours, and all the perpetrators have grown into upright citizens. Three of my four grandchildren have also successfully grown through this interesting developmental period.
grim72  
#10 Posted : 30 September 2010 11:11:00(UTC)
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grim72

I tend to agree more with Clairel than Ron on this one. I think 'bullying' can be identified in 2-3 yeard olds and I too believe that biting is not the norm. If the kids are told early enough and educated correctly as to what is acceptable then hopefully they won't progress to full blown bullies. Turning a blind eye and stating 'that's what kids do' is a step down a dangerous road in my opinion. Maybe I just believe in old fashioned values, but it didn't do me any harm and my 5 year old son certainly seems to know the rights and wrongs even at his formative years. As a parent I would not expect to be told if he had fallen over whilst at nursery but if he was bitten then I would.
MrsBlue  
#11 Posted : 30 September 2010 11:42:31(UTC)
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Guest

Hi all Interesting views, and my main question has been answered, so thanks for that. To grim72 and all other posters who mentioned "Bullying". I do not believe that biting from a 2 year old necessarily means they are a bully or could develop into one. And certainly no one in their right mind would turn a blind eye even in the home let alone in a work situation. As my initial post said "Over the last few weeks there have been about 5 or 6 instances of youngsters (aged about 2 / 3 ) biting each other in a fit of pique" - we had this spate of biting (all different children) who were instructed in a most sensitive way that biting was not allowed etc. There has not been a repeat from the children concerned. From observing these children over the last 10 days there is no apparent indications that any of them are bullys or potentially so. Anyway - I have now set up a different system of reporting these incidents and other episodes which (IMHO) do not fall into the category of accidents. Thanks all for your contributions. Rich
Dazzling Puddock  
#12 Posted : 30 September 2010 12:03:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dazzling Puddock

I agree with Jane! No one is saying turn a blind eye Grim or saying that biting is acceptable but it is a behaviour that can be expected from a two year old at some point. Hopefully that biting period is extremely short lived but is not what you would call exceptionally rare behaviour.
Clare H  
#13 Posted : 30 September 2010 13:13:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Clare H

I also receive accident and incident reports from our College nursery. Most are due to the natural clumsiness of young children but we do get the odd incident of biting/hitting, which tend to come in clusters. A significant proportion of the "biting " incidents occur when the child is "pretending to be a wild animal!" Other incidents which have raised a chuckle include: poked self in eye while singing "heads, shoulders, knees & toes" and; got hair tangled in stickytape (ouch!)
Clairel  
#14 Posted : 30 September 2010 13:27:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Jane Blunt wrote:
Is biting to be expected???? I think so, Claire, in the sense that this is within the spectrum of behaviour of normal children of that age. Expecting them and tolerating them are two very different things. Other behaviours include kissing snails, hitting one another, making puddles on the floor during toilet training, playing with poo, lying on the floor screaming, holding their breath, head banging, being unable to pronounce words properly or use proper grammar etc. We encourage children not to do these things and endeavour to ensure that some of these behaviours stop as quickly as possible! However, they are still within the normal range of behaviours of the age-group. My children did not do all of the above, thankfully, but I have seen all these behaviours, and all the perpetrators have grown into upright citizens. Three of my four grandchildren have also successfully grown through this interesting developmental period.
Quite a patronising post that Jane. As I said I have raised 2 children myself and so I am perfectly well aware of kids wierd behaviour at times (although head banging again seems a bit out of the ordinary to me). I also never said that kids that bite will necessarily grow up into abusive adults (although I have known one who did). However, I would not say that biting is a phase that kids can be expected to go through. The only kids I knew that bit (including one of my nephews) were poorly disciplined kids. But there's that word discipline, which is a naughty word nowadays, which some will now probably interpret as me diplaying violence or something, which it doesn't, it means setting boundaries. I like grim have old fashioned views about parenting. But discussing views on parenting will lead nowhere but trouble as we all have our own passionate views. So going back to the subject of reporting everyone..... (by the way if the bite breaks the skin remember that the human bite can lead to serious infection and so the child will need proper medical attention)
Ron Hunter  
#15 Posted : 30 September 2010 14:10:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

A public forum, and all entitled to a view point. I personally think it now and again quite important to discriminate between personal life experiences and the broader boundaries of professional knowledge. There is a world of difference between raising a couple of kids (as have I) and an in-depth knowledge and experience in child psychology and behaviour. We only know what we know. We don't know what we don't know. In between, the best we can do is surmise. When someone explains to me something I didn't know, I tend to thank them.
Ken Slack  
#16 Posted : 01 October 2010 11:08:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

Back to the reporting question. Surely the enforcing authorities and inspectors, including OFSTED would expect that these kind of minor incidents and injuries occur. I would not like to go down the route of not recording minor injuries just because it may make the organisation look bad. We use accident records to identify trends, such as an increase of biting, children falling or getting injured in one place etc, and these trends need to be assessed and controls put in place.
Citizen Smith  
#17 Posted : 02 October 2010 11:25:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Citizen Smith

Interesting that the topic of nursery schools should come up twice so close together as I raised a question regarding when an accident in a nursery is a RIDDOR ( http://forum.iosh.co.uk/...aspx?g=posts&t=97242 ). My experience (with only one of my own children) is that biting and hitting is a stage that many 2 - 3 yr olds will go through and is an issue that needs to be dealt with firmly at both school and home. I can't say it should be recorded as an accident though. My son's nursery certainly recorded it in a book and informed the parents of both children seperately. As far as the sitting down thing is concerned I can't see why that needs to be recorded at all unless there is something very unusual about how it happens or it results in injury. Might I suggest that if this is very new area for you that you bring in some external expertise to get you up to speed on the requirements and what is considered "usual" in this environment. I must say this is not an offer nor a pitch for work as it's not my area of expertise at all either. Good luck with sorting it.
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