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Clairel  
#1 Posted : 08 October 2010 15:11:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Our resident fire expert seems to have gone walk about and I need some advice asap please. 1 - is there a requirement for fire supressant in server rooms and if so what standard is required. 2 - what level of competence / qualification should I be looking for if I want to contract someone (a fire engineer probably) to come and give competent advice on the adeqauacy of fire resisting structures (doors, floors, walls, ceilings) in complex medium risk premises. Thanks
SBH  
#2 Posted : 08 October 2010 16:03:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

FM 200 Auto suppression system in computer room.Theres no sprcific requirement it just makesc sense to protect your servers. Competency - ask to see examples of their work - qualifications do not always mean competence SBH
flukey  
#3 Posted : 08 October 2010 16:11:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
flukey

Hi Claire, No specific regulatory requirement and its more a question of business continuity than life safety. FM200 is generally the gas system of choice but dont forget that the intergirty of the room is a vital piece of the jigsaw if installing a suppression system of this type. As far as competence goes there is a BS that covers the protection of electrical systems, I just cant recall of the top of my head. BS5306 comes to mind for some reason- but may be someone else can advise.
flukey  
#4 Posted : 08 October 2010 16:31:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
flukey

flukey wrote:
Hi Claire, No specific regulatory requirement and its more a question of business continuity than life safety. FM200 is generally the gas system of choice but dont forget that the intergirty of the room is a vital piece of the jigsaw if installing a suppression system of this type. As far as competence goes there is a BS that covers the protection of electrical systems, I just cant recall of the top of my head. BS5306 comes to mind for some reason- but may be someone else can advise.
Hi Claire, Sorry just re-read your second question and realised I didn't answer properly (it is Friday). If your after a 'nuts and bolts', 'belt and braces' answer you may consider approaching ARUPs or Buro Happold who have extensive experince in fire engineering. In terms of quals you may also consider a person with a high level membership with the IFE. Hope this helps
David Bannister  
#5 Posted : 08 October 2010 17:22:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Clairel, you may find that your insurers or brokers have such a resource that may be available for no charge. Some insurers engineers are well experienced and qualified, others less so but it may be worth a shout.
messyshaw  
#6 Posted : 08 October 2010 20:48:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

1) No - It's not a legal requirement but maybe required by those picky insurance folk 2) Of course, qualifications are important, but experince should be relevant and current. I know lots of IFE qualified people who haven't looked at a premises (FS wise) for 20 years or so! Ask to speak to the assessor and quiz him over the phone with questions (relevant to what you are asking him/her to do) that you know the answers to.This can be prepared by use of Google or asking for advice here. If the premises is a special risk such as Hospital/care home or specialist plant such as petrochemical etc, they should have relevant experience in that field
bleve  
#7 Posted : 09 October 2010 10:23:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

Hi Claire, Out and about completing two week loss prevention audit and sporadic web access to site restriction on electronic devices. No specific or legal requirement but typically provided due to insurer/loss prevention requirements. Suggest you look at BS 6266 COP Fire protection for electrical equipment installations plus BS EN 14520 Gaseous Fire Extinguishing systems. As for qualifications for obvious reasons I am biased towards Fire safety Degree, MiFireE plus demonstrable experience and references. Will PM further when I get a chance over the week end
bleve  
#8 Posted : 09 October 2010 10:56:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

messyshaw wrote:
1) I know lots of IFE qualified people who haven't looked at a premises (FS wise) for 20 years or so!
Messy, IFE requires evidence of CDP in order to maintain membership and if it were a case that any particular member had not assessed a building in x number of years they should be more than capable of doing so. Where CPD is not demonstrated then membership is withdrawn.
messyshaw  
#9 Posted : 09 October 2010 11:33:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

Bleve: I am not talking about the assessor's register (which is a good source of ensuring competence), I am talking about the hundreds of people with 'GIFE' or 'MIFE' after their names and use that as evidence of competence. Many may have vast experience of operational fire experience or other technical areas, but wouldn't necessary be competent in completing FRAs or given the sort of advice requested in this thread.
bleve  
#10 Posted : 09 October 2010 11:57:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

Messy, I would have to disagree. Provided we are talking about members who maintain CPD then having passed Grad and Membership papers, these individuals could carry out such an assessment with no difficulty.
firesafety101  
#11 Posted : 09 October 2010 12:13:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Regarding competency I am GIFireE but not on any fra register. The reason being that I am not prepared to jump through the hoops required and pay the high fees involved. I have to say that those on the regster will have proved they have the necessary experience of completing fire risk assessment in complex premises so must be respected as competent. They are frequently reviewed and must keep up their skills. I add that just because I am not on the register does not mean I am not competent, I probably am but unable to prove it in that way. I have a selection of fire risk assessments to show prospective clients, if they ask, and If I choose to seek work I update my CV regularly. You get what you pay for and those on the register will no doubt be more expensive, it's up to the client to decide?
bleve  
#12 Posted : 09 October 2010 12:30:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

Chris For the record I am not saying that the register is a measure of competency.
firesafety101  
#13 Posted : 09 October 2010 16:57:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

But surely the register must be a measure of competency - that is just what it is. However it only proves competey for those that bother to go along that route. I believe I am a competent fire risk assesser but not on any register.
martinw  
#14 Posted : 09 October 2010 18:55:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
martinw

No doubt you are Chris, and from what I have read in your posts I am sure that you know exactly what you are talking about. But if the poo hit the extractor, and a place which you FRA'd had a fire and the insurers wanted a head on a plate, would a good barrister not find you an easy target? External accreditation is not just for the protection of clients - it is a shield for you too. I remember being told by a solicitor when I worked for an organisation years ago(and I had no formal H&S qualifications but loads of practical experience), doing solely H&S, that the first questions that he would ask me is what are my qualifications, what professional organisations do I belong to. If the answers are both in the negative, his response would be 'then why are we listening to you? This is a court of law, not amateur hour'. It is used to undermine credibility. Difficult to build it back up by saying that you have done loads of FRAs, the seed of doubt has already been sown. Again, I do not doubt that you know your onions. But if a judge said that the court would not allow access to your previous FRAs, what would you have in your corner?
firesafety101  
#15 Posted : 09 October 2010 20:55:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I think we are now in danger of using this topic for another fra competence debate and I wouldn't wish to do that, however, where does it say in the guides to fire risk assessment that the fire risk assessor has to belong to one organisation or another? I could apply to join the registers of IFE or Warrington fire or some other agency, or even every register in existence but that would not make me any more or less competent. I am currently CMIOSH and hope to be included on the new register, I see fire as just another side of health and safety so no need to pay to join another register. Competence is necessary as is the RPs duty to have the fra carried out. I suppose I could end up in the dock but the RP would be in the dock alongside me as the main offender? By the way do we know who is being prosecuted following that tragic hotel fire in Cornwall? Is it the RP or the fire risk assessor? Most if not all recent prosecutions have not involved the fire risk assessor.
bleve  
#16 Posted : 09 October 2010 21:49:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

Entry to the register is not required by law which was the point I was trying to make. I have seen many reports by those on the register that I would drive an appliance through. When pointed out to various clients, they recognise the gaps therein and the typical response is not to use the same consultancy there after.
firesafety101  
#17 Posted : 10 October 2010 10:42:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

bleve I see you agree that entry to a register is not a requirement, however I can also see the point made by martinw about the barrister tearing me apart in court (if I made a mistake during a fra). Perhaps I am a little naive as I stand in the centre - not belonging to a register 'cos I don't see the need but also thinking I may need a better barrister to defend me.
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