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Jones43952  
#1 Posted : 19 October 2010 11:41:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Jones43952

Could anyone suggest a percentage value for the safety budget from the overall project budget. I appreciate that this might vary depending on locations, projects, clients etc. I am looking for a rough guide and if you have had the experience, if the percentage sum (safety budget) was sufficient to deliver a safe project.
Terry556  
#2 Posted : 19 October 2010 11:56:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Terry556

what exactly are you looking for on your budget, PPE,Training,
Jones43952  
#3 Posted : 19 October 2010 12:16:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Jones43952

I was looking for the whole budget, wages, materials (PPE, testing equipment), training etc, if possible, however, any information would be gratefully received. Thanks
PhilBeale  
#4 Posted : 19 October 2010 15:31:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

i think you are correct in assuming it would be difficult to put a figure to. maybe give a bit moredetail around the project and the budget involves may help other answer. i would say certain projects would need a larger budget for H&S due to the inherent risk in the project. laying a gas main along the M4 motorway is going to need a bigger budget than laying a gas main across open farm land. Also depending on the project existing skills or level of training may be sufficient for known construction methods but if you look at the construction of the channel tunnel then this will pose new H&S issues that have probably never before seen. So basically i think you are asking how long a piece of string is. Possible you can make comparisons to similar projects before but you would need to provide far more detail before anyone could answer. Phil
David Bannister  
#5 Posted : 19 October 2010 16:16:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

I think that it would be fairly easy to construct an argument to say that the safety budget is almost equal to the entire project cost. Consider the effect of an under-spend on materials (inferior quality, unreliable, leads to collapse) on personnel (less competence, greater errors) on equipment (collapse, explosion, fire, falls, injuries) on professional advice (inadequate design, assembly). Specifying and procuring adequate resources is fundamental to safety. Also, the type of project will have a very great impact on what is required to do the job in safety and complete a safe project. Factors such as size, complexity, height, location, duration, climate, environment, personnel, culture, local laws, enforcement, attitude of main contractor to risk etc will all have an effect on how safety is "done". Also, the definition of a safe project is likely to mean different things to different people ("we only killed 3"; "1.5 million hours worked without a lost time accident"; "no prosecutions"; " our site medics were idle"; " the building was still standing when we handed it over"). Thus sadly I do not think that you are likely to get any guidance that may be realistic to your own situation.
LoSMOSH  
#6 Posted : 28 October 2010 04:27:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LoSMOSH

Hi, Stingy: Best is Zero %. Finance control: As Low As Possible Industry practice:it is as low as reasonably practicable (ALARP). Speaking of ALARP, it is only possible to figure out a $ based on known accident/incident; thus, determine known percentage for known potential accident/incident. Personally, i would based on a possible sum of penalty if a certain safety control/feature is not implemented. We only got 1 Life,it is precious, try to be as safe as possible. Successful business will be able to recoup safety costs and reap the profits if they spend wisely and social responsibly in long term. It is cheaper to prevent than correct the mistakes. E.g. How much would it cost to check the "FLT" before delivery to customer? comparing the cost of retrieving the defect and delivery another possible quality "FLT" to dissatisfied customer. Regards, Lo
walker  
#7 Posted : 28 October 2010 08:44:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Depends what you are doing doesn't it? I did a job a few years ago -20 men involved: our PPE budget alone was £450K
Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 28 October 2010 23:27:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Why do you wish to break out "safety" as a seperate item? Indeed, exactly how do you discriminate between construction or manufacturing headline costs and "safety" costs? In terms of budget, i.e. a balancing of costs, surely you would have to consider the cost of NOT complying with sensible measures, legal compliance, competent appointments, monitoring and review, etc.? Any prospective contractor answering a tender asking him to seperately cost "safety" would surely have a real head scratcher? The true test is a comparative analysis of price and method - the method has to incorporate safety and this in turn will be reflected in the price. Added value and innovation usually tip the scales in competitive tender processes, not a comparison of 'false' price breakdowns.
ClarkeScholes  
#9 Posted : 30 October 2010 08:00:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ClarkeScholes

Jonesy, Lots of good debate here, but no answer yet. I had a proper answer for you, but I lost it when the site logged me out, I thought we had put a stop to that? That'll teach me to help the cat chase a mouse and then make a fresh coffee whilst composing a post. Short answer was 10% plus or minus 5% subject to risk. That's construction/demolition. I'm off now to repeat the exercise in word, because I also manage to prove that my department (HSQE) is under resourced! I'll post the calculations later, lets see how others think this number holds up. I am assuming that much of HS is just part of good management, my figures allow for PPE, welfare, direct costs in preparing risk assessments and control documentation, safety inspections and the like and the proportion of daily management that is expended in safety topics. Paul.
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