I have a problem with evacuation of clients at the care home I work at.It is for mixed sex with mental health problems ,when the fire alarm goes off the care staff think it is ok to leave clients in the building and not to help evacuate them.I have told them about duty of care but because i have only passed my NEBOSH general cert this year they think they know the law better than me ,could any of you please help with this as any other information i have ,would be great

Kev, I work for a Care Charity with a number of residential premises for disabled people. The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order came in in 2005. This changed fire law to require a much more searching and comprehensive risk assessment than had previously been required. Your fire safety risk assessment must take into account the safety of all 'relevant persons', your residents are relevant persons for the purposes of the law. Leaving people to be rescued by the fire service was the way that things used to be done, on the understanding that the fire service would roll up and rescue people. This approach is now explicitly condemned by the official guidance released to support the Reform Order. You can find your relevant guidance here http://www.communities.g...ns/fire/firesafetyrisk5. One of my team keeps telling me that this is just guidance, and there is nothing in the Order which compels us to draw up and practice schemes of evacuation. Healso tells me that these is as yet no case law. He is right, but every fire officer who has been asked is clear that it is our duty to get the people out while they put the fire out. They will of course rescue if plans go wrong, but you do need an evacuation plan, which must be tested in drills, John

I can only speak from a Scottish prespective but I am sure it is similar to Wales & England. We have been left in no doubt by the fire authorities that we need to have evac arrangements in place for clients and these must be initiated and carried out by our staff - so much so that we had to increase the number of staff on nightshift to allow us to meet our duties. Stress to staff the difference between evacuation - which is basically moving clients when it is safe to do so - as opposed to rescue - which is moving people from imminent danger (my 'rough' definitions!!!) - this may allay their concerns. When discussing evacuation also remember that it needn't be 'full' evacuation - lateral evacuation (i.e. moving clients from one area or fire zone to another) should always be considered first. Clearly when the emergency services arrive on the scene they will take control but they will almost certainly utilise staff on site and ask them to continue to assist in evacuation if it is safe to do so and deemed necessary. In reality (and speaking 'off the record' to the fire authorities) it is unrealistic to expect 3 nightshift staff to fully evacuate a 25 bedroom care home but the duty to evacuate is falls on the 'care home' and cannot be left to fire authority - I know of one care home that was served with an improvement notice for exactly the scenario you have described. If it is of any consolation our staff voiced similar concerns and were very resistant to this when it was 'introduced' through the new legislation but once the difference between evacuation and rescue was explained we have not had any problems and staff are now actively involved in evacuation drills. Regards FH

Identify your compartmentation , then use horizontal evacuation techniques until you arrive at a place of ultimate safety. Theres no need to evacuate the premises if your systems works like this you have 30 minutes protection from one compartment to the next until eventually you do arrive at an external assembly point.in the meantime designated staff members should investigate why the alarm has activated, based on the location indicated on the fire panel.It could be just a toaster! Remember if you evacuate to an external area straight away and in the middle of winter who knows what could happen to the residents SBH

Another thing that puzzles me about the approach of your staff is that they assume that people will be quite happy to be left in their rooms and will sit there while the fire alarms go off. Since you work in a mental health unit I would imagine that most of the people living there will be quite capable of responding to the alarm, and it may well be that in the event of a real fire the main task of your staff will be to marshal people who are evacuating themselves; I can see the main staff role as being the avoidance of panic. Does everybody have a Personal Emergency Evacuation Plan? They need one, John

kevbell, it appears that whilst you have completed your FRA, Senior Management are disconnected. Surely, if your set procedures are for full evacuation, this must be embraced by the care home manager and driven by that person and the senior management team.

Kev In a fire it is going to be total evacuation to a place of safety. A place of safety might be other establishments or hospital or both with clients which should be in your emergency plans. This is going to require coordination with other establishments and emergency services. I am sure when it is for real and you ring 999, the emergency services who respond will ensure the full evacuation with the staff doing what is required. Just a point, during fire drills which are for staff training, you are not suggesting moving those in care, outside to a place of safety? Think of the serious risk of exposure in inclement weather for clients in a drill. Regards

Kev I think its a bit more complicated than many have replied to you. You maybe should get some professional help to review the whole fire evacuation and follow up care of clients. Either research much more or benchmark before you move it up further!! Regards Steve