I have worked within the Demolition trade for 30 years plus, during my years on sites i passed my HGV, CPCS for plant operatives, Asbestos stripping operative course (including Asbestos Awareness), PASMA, Abbrasive Wheel, numerous H&S courses, SMSTS, NEBOSH National Construction Certificate (With Credit), i have been the named Safety Advisor for our company for 2 years now.

I am an Associate Member of IIRSM and Technician member of IOSH

So why have i just been denied acces to one of our sites, as i do not have a CSCS card.

One of our clients site managers requested my CSCS card on my arrival, i informed him that i did not have one, but was certain that my qualifications exceeded this and produced my membership cards, he informed me that they did not recognise any of my qualifications as being suitable to enter the site and declined my request to carry out my H&S inspection.

I contacted my MD about this, who intern contacted CSCS, they also said that they did not recognise NEBOSH or IIRSM/IOSH and therefore i would have to book myself on a touch screen multiple choice CSCS course.

Now i really do not have a problem with taking this (inferior) course, but how does this work?

We as a company are expected to monitor our H&S, (which we do) and take very seriously, but because i do not have a green basic site skills only CSCS card, i cannot monitor our H&S on this particular site.

I am sorry if i offend anyone here, but has the whole world gone mad!

IMHO the CSCS is not worth a thing, you get a book to read, sit in front of a touch screen, answer a few mutiple choice questions and hey presto you are allowed on a construction site, again IMHO a license to print money.

Rick the CSCS scheme does recognise Tech IOSH members under the PQP card scheme. It is IOSH, like all the other paricipating associations that set the card levels. You will be pleased to know (not) that you will be classified as a "Trainee" and will hold a red card once you have applied. This is the link for all the institutes associated with CSCS and IOSH is one of them. You will probably need the MAP test. Copy and paste into your browser.


http://www.cscs.uk.com/u...es%20of%20membership.pdf

Good Luck !!!!

Lets look at this another way.
The idea behind the CSCS card - as well as the ECITB "Passport" scheme is to ensure that all employees entering site have a basic training / understanding on hazards, risk assessment - the basic rules and requirements of the UK etc. This will ensure all trades are taught the same basics and the refreshers will capture any changes in best practice and legislation etc.
So if the industry states it is a minimum requirement for access, why should it allow anyone else to access without it? How does the site know that a consultant - or someone holding IOSH accreditation is familiar with the latest best practise?
I do hold my ECITB Passport - and yes the course is very basic - to me. But I have seen it highlight the shortfalls of some of the participants - including some managers.

David

Rick

The old blood boiler again.

I have roughly the same qualifications as you.

My main gripe is yes I can get a Red Card as a Trainee but this means I have to then do a NVQ more money.

The CSCS cards are for people working on site we do not go on site to work but to investigate or in the case of Consultants to audit/inspect.

Yes it is a farce but one that we have to put up with.

The only one time I was refused entry to site as I had no card I accepted this and said I would riong the HSE to investigate for me.

I did not get to far before I was invited onto site.

Regards Alex

Rick, I can fully understand the frustration you must feel at not getting on site. Ignoring the politics of CSCS and their "license to print money" we should perhaps look at this from the clients / PCs point of view.

They need to restrict access to their site. The turnstile site entrance or what have you will be manned by somebody employed by an external security company who are probably paying minimum wage. Their job is to turn away anyone who does not meet the criteria for site entry.

CSCS cards and their like are the easiest way to do this. They have a 5 year life span, photo ID and clear identification of the skills the carrier holds. Now imagine life without them where anyone could spin a good story regarding their trade skills / experience in order to blag their way on to site.

CSCS is easy to maintain, consistent and relatively idiot proof. Yes, it sets a low bar (the touch screen test) but at least it weeds out the chancers looking to earn a few quid labouring on a site without a clue of the hazards involved.

Bob - I was thinking back 10 years or so when the usual recruitment process was "Ask around and see if anyone fancies earning a few quid for general labouring work - no questions asked" - usually this would take place down the local pub.

That's what I meant.

CSCS is not perfect, but at least it removes these casual, easy come easy go staff from the equation (ignoring the fake CSCS card market for the time being).

So thirty years in demolition and no CCDO card, neither was your CPCS card for plant kept current. Either would probably get you onto site! CSCS and its ilk are here to stay you may not like it, but learn to live with it like parking charges and airport security. Not saying it's right but it's been around long enough now.

Any person who works within construction for any of the major contractors is aware of the requirement for CSCS or CPCS cards to enter site, and have been for the last 5-6 years. The system is not in any way perfect, and no doubt never will be. But as a safety professional surely you should be leading by example and enforcing what is required by your principle contractor. You can also apply for a site visitors white card using the professional persons touch screen test.
As the industry accreditation scheme has now nearly finished, then NVQ is the only route available.
Yes it is a money making scheme, as is any that is brought in to the construction sector, and it is down to the working man to accept it or leave it as have many good site workers.

I've written this before on this forum.

I audited a major contractors building site and picked up they had a number of trades without CSCS cards.

I was told by the site manager (we're talking about a big company here who is one of the initiators of the CSCS card on sites) that if they insisted on that rule they would never get a house finished.

Hi all,

Just to let you know that this very topic - is the plethora of CSCS cards, passports, schemes, etc. really necessary? - is the subject of an online webinar/round table being held by SHP on 2 December. On the panel we have a representative of CSCS, and of the Safety Passport Alliance, so you can put your questions directly to them! SHP's deputy editor Andrew Sansom will chair the event (I'll be chairing a similar one the day before, on the new accreditation scheme) so please do join us - it's free to attend and the whole event (called Training & Career Development Live) is supported by IOSH and NEBOSH. If you want to find out more, visit the SHP website at www.shponline.co.uk/shp-round-tables - you can also send us your questions in advance to put to the panel members.

Tina - SHP editor

How can Lord Young be to blame?
The CSCS card has been around for a long time. I know because mine was one of the first cards issued. CSCS Ltd. are a company selling a product and they still haven't got it right. They have got an appalling attitude when approached with complaints about their system. You get told if you don't like it don't get a card. This is a bit hard when my clients request it on site. Don't get me wrong I will defend the good points about the scheme. If CSCS go to the meeting that Tina has mentioned without their earplugs in they might come up with solutions. Sorry though Tina don't hold your breath if you want a reasonable reply. Looking forward to the CSCS update event. Hope they get some stick.
Tina some questions for CSCS
Why can't Site Safety Plus be mapped across to CSCS?
Likely answer - because CSCS Ltd doesn't recognise Site Safety Plus.
Why don't you recognise Site Safety Plus, you are both administered by Construction Skills?
Would you consider mapping Site Safety Plus to CSCS?
What if applicants were willing to pay the same price£££££ for their card?
Why do CSCS believe that the Touch Screen Test is better than the Site Safety Plus?
Why are so many site managers, supervisors and employers annoyed at having to take the touch screen test but they are not at taking the Site Safety Plus?
What does Construction Skills think of CSCS Ltd. not mapping the Site Safety Plus?
Does the CSCS card protect the domestic client who has no knowledge of construction, competency or health & safety?
This is not an attack on your post Tina I have a long running grievance with CSCS Ltd.
If you would like further questions please PM me and I will forward more.