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Adams29600  
#1 Posted : 01 December 2010 11:25:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Adams29600

We operate in leased premises with a car park at the front, managed by the landlord, where most of our office staff park. At the rear, we have an enclosed yard controlled by ourselves, which is not defined as a car park in the lease, but where most of the shop floor staff park, simply for ease of access. In December 2009, an employee slipped on ice in the yard, whilst going from his car to the door on his way to work. This resulted in serious injuries and a string of operations, this employee has not yet returned to work as a result of this accident. This produced a reaction resulting in a written risk assessment that means that when there is snow or ice, access to the yard is denied until snow has been cleared and walkways and the goods in area gritted. Shop floor staff have to park at the front of the building and come in through the offices leading to overcrowding of the front car park and the shop floor staff having to walk further from their cars than if they had parked in the yard. The car park is in much the same condition as the yard with regard to snow and ice – the landlord clears one small path only. The business is of the opinion that this solution is reasonable and that it has fulfilled its obligation with regard to the yard under its control. My personal view is that it is winter and it is reasonably foreseeable that it may be slippery underfoot and therefore one could be expected to take suitable precautions. We seem to be exposing employees to greater risk by making them walk further to/from their cars. I also think that, in the current weather, there is a limit to how much we can/should do, notwithstanding the serious injury that did occur but we appear to be simply transferring the risk. I would welcome your thoughts…………..
Kate  
#2 Posted : 01 December 2010 11:54:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

It seems that if you compare the risks of allowing parking in the yard and the risks of not allowing it, one of the two (and you know which one) will turn out as lower risk and that would be the finding of a genuine risk assessment. I don't see how a control measure that increases the risk of injury can be justified by risk assessment - that's just an abuse of risk assessment. It sounds as if the liability argument has taken precedence, so how about this counter-argument: by preventing staff from parking in the safer area, the company has contributed to any injury they may suffer in the less safe area as a result of the prohibition.
Bob Shillabeer  
#3 Posted : 01 December 2010 11:58:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

This seems a bit muddled. The contents of the lease are not really related to what the area concerned is used for, the lease can be involved by the property owner if he has concerns. Employees do not normally have sight of the lease arrangements therefore it is the leaser who has to manage the use of the property concerned. The issue is simply about the condition of the area in so far as it being safe to use. Why has a risk assessment been made after the event, this should have been considered well before any snow appeared. What time do any staff arrive, is it not possible to clear the area of snow before they are due to arrive at work? As can be seen there are many issues to cover, but remember it is everyone's responsibility to take reasonable care when there is snow or ice around and there is no absolute legal position on this topic. Simply take reasonable steps to control the area with the warning to all staff to take extra care due to treacherous underfoot conditions.
RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 01 December 2010 13:17:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Cutting to the chase...employers have a duty to ensure that they do not expose their employees and others affected by their undertaking which includes eliminating or reducing risks to which they may be exposed. Furthermore, the Occupiers Liability Act places a duty on the occupier of premises to do the same, albeit civil law. The bottom line is that as an employer or occupier should do all that is reasonably practical to prevent people getting injured by ice and snow, which includes any residual risks which might result from the latter.
HSSnail  
#5 Posted : 01 December 2010 13:32:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Just to play devils advocate - employers have no duty to provide parking for office based staff!
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 01 December 2010 13:44:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

True, but if they do...
SteveL  
#7 Posted : 01 December 2010 16:28:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

section 2 d )so far as is reasonably practicable as regards any place of work under the employer’s control, the maintenance of it in a condition that is safe and without risks to health and the provision and maintenance of means of access to and egress from it that are safe and without such risks; Are they under your control if the snap van arrives outside and parks on the road and they have to walk to it? No! is the car park under your control? No! No risk then
Steve-IOM  
#8 Posted : 01 December 2010 21:51:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve-IOM

I suppose in stead of writing about it and doing risk assessments about it, you could get together and help clear the snow and do some gritting. Less paperwork + safer workplace = happy workforce [Lord Young was right!]
bob youel  
#9 Posted : 02 December 2010 07:41:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

weather etc should have already been accounted for in the tenders
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