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Kate  
#41 Posted : 02 December 2010 15:19:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The case Phil refers to is described here: http://www.orsa.org.uk/guidance/faqs.htm
Bob Shillabeer  
#42 Posted : 02 December 2010 19:24:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

You are not at work until you cross the threshold of the work place. The employer has no control over the route used to get to work so can do nothing about its condition therefore cannot be held responsible for how you get to work. Most employers would make allowances for staff who arrive late because of the weather conditions and I have experienced some raised eyebrows when I travelled from Newport South Wales into London during very inclement snow but got in around three hours late and was told to go back home when ready as the journey could be as hard the other way, one or twice even I failed to get to work. My employer, as would most, makes allowance for this eventuality as it is outside anyone's control. This asks the question what type of employer are we looking at in this specific case. I also have a friend who is not based at any particular place, he has a vehicle fitted with a devise that feeds info back to his employer's head office some 300miles away and they can tell when he leaves his home and starts driving and this is when he is under the company's control.
Canopener  
#43 Posted : 02 December 2010 21:05:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I think ,most of us are on the same wavelength, but I do wonder if we need to go back to Cleggs original post at #1 which was "I have seen an e-mail from a company my partner works for that says they will not be responsible for any accidents injuries etc. sustained whilst on the way to or from work.". In my reply at #5 I accepted that this was generally the case but I was concerned that part of the response at #3 i.e. "The company are right, travelling from home to normal place of work, the company has no responsibility." was a sweeping generalisation and I sought to raise awareness that the reality may not be as clear cut and some would like to think. Again, while I agree and accept that in normal circumstances an employer is (highly) unlikely to be responsible for the commute, I suggest that there MAY be cases where they might be, depending on the circumstances. I think that is important to make the distinction in order to provide a more rounded view of the potential liabilities that might arise. I love the spell checker!
cliveg  
#44 Posted : 04 December 2010 18:01:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
cliveg

Hello clegg1966 This discussion did seem to go off track rather! I think your question was is it reasonable for a company to threaten disciplinary action if their employees don't turn up in bad weather. In practical terms, the employer should be able to expect their employees to take all reasonable steps to get in to work. However, it may actually be impossible for the employee to succeed in doing so. If the employer can show that other employees from the same area managed to get in to work ok, then disciplinary action may be warranted, and may succeed. If the employee could show that it was impossible for them to get to work, then the action won't succeed. A sensible discussion with the person's line manager should short circuit any discipline process. If an employee cannot get in, and has made contact with their work place then a reasonable employer should allow emergency time off. However, they would be entirely justified in expecting the employee to make up for lost time in the days that follow.
David Jones  
#45 Posted : 06 December 2010 10:03:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
David Jones

I think Kate has got this pot on in her well reasoned statements. Remember that as an employee you have a contract with an employer. In essence you agree to come to work and do what you are employed to do and they agree to pay you etc. If you fail to turn up to work they are withion their rights to discipline you, stop pay, etc. However, before doing so most companies would take into account extenuating circumstances, shich may include particularly severe weather. The big question is has the employee made a reasonable attempt to fulfill their part of the bargain? If not I can't see that they have anything to complain about. At my place of work, if you cannot get into work due tot he weather and you have made a reasonable attempt to get in, then you can either take leave or get your salary docked. However, in my view if you have looked out the window, seen soime snow and decided I'm not going to bother to go to work today, then I beleive you have breached your contract of employment and disciplinary measures are perfectly justified
Bob Shillabeer  
#46 Posted : 06 December 2010 11:50:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Exactamondo David Jones. Are you by any chance Welsh?
RayRapp  
#47 Posted : 06 December 2010 19:22:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I also agree that Kate has articulated her responses very well and in principle I agree with her. Case law is sometimes very difficult to do a like for like comparison and I think the driving one cited is a classic example. The wrongdoing was done by the employer and whilst the victim was at work - enough said. Whether someone cannot get into work for all sorts of reasons may be a disciplinary matter. However, I feel in extreme weather conditions which could be dangerous or impossible, the employer should be more considerate and thankfully most are. Again, in the extreme, it may be down to an ET to decide whether the employer acted fairly and not h&s practitioners pontificating on a forum...just my opinion.
Steve Granger  
#48 Posted : 06 December 2010 20:49:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Granger

The word discipline here is causing concern. In the context of employment law absence from work invokes the employers right to uphold their end of the contract - ie to withhold pay or take further action as the employee is in default -not the employer (ie the workplace and work is still there) If the employer does not invoke their process for failure to turn up they can end up in contractual knots should it become more complicated or 'unfair' on others. Unfortunately - as with sickness absence, the employer usually only one policy for dealing with such reasons for 'non work' and it is termed the discipline procedure. But of course, this has to be applied uniformly, fairly, is transparent, has a warning process etc. It may not be a conduct issue, but more of capability one. Steve
sean  
#49 Posted : 06 December 2010 21:01:25(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

I am so pleased that none of you are my boss, you have completely read the thread wrong, apart from Phil. Bet you all have a large turn over of staff, please read all the postings before adding your comments!
pete48  
#50 Posted : 06 December 2010 22:11:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

Sean, I have just read the whole thread for the first time. The key responses for me were those by Kate and that at #44 by CliveG. It seems to me that they have both read and understood the O.P. question and given a good and correct summary of the position. They cover both the liability question and the HR management matters that would cover this sort of situation. I am not sure how that opinion would make me a bad boss and I cannot see why you think that most have misread the question? p48
Heather Collins  
#51 Posted : 07 December 2010 08:47:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

I agree with Pete. Kate has posted what I believe to be the correct answers for this situation. Sean with respect just because almost everyone else that has posted here disagrees with you doesn't mean they are all wrong... ;)
SteveL  
#52 Posted : 07 December 2010 09:24:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

Have a look at this link it may help, http://www.hrmagazine.co...-disruption-caused-snow/
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