Why do you think that this is beyond many Safety Professionals on this web site? On what basis do you make such a statement? To become a Chartered Member you need to undergo a very detailed and often difficult training process before the Institute would even think about giving you a Professional endorsement. The factors that applied at the location may have been less than expected but that does not mean there is alack of competence in the Professional H&S community.

Sweeping statements from people who have no idea of the circumstances of these incidents. How unusual.

You're entirely correct in suggesting that the appalling track record and ultimate tradegy puts a lot of what we discuss here in a proper perspective, but other than that what's your point? No Organisation is obliged to publish their H&S competencies, policies or arrangements on the web, so no judgement can be made on that basis. What of corporate responsibility though, and the part of all those who happily bought the product of a company with such a terrible track record, and bought that product at a price that allowed the company to sustain that level of fines? What price in terms of human suffering each tonne of steel produced by the likes of Corus, a company with an even worse record? What about all of us health & safety professionals and the efforts we make to influence the social and moral approach to buying goods and services by ? Where now the direction of "sensible" health and safety?

Maybe you miss my point Bob. What I'm trying to say is that if the business world worked with honesty and integrity, companies like that simply wouldn't be able to trade. Market forces would do the job the HSE is struggling to achieve. I know, I know - a pipedream of course.

I attended the company in question for interview approx ten years ago. The job was Health and Safety Manager, with a good salary, and I got to the final two. I did very well, however did not receive an offer. I believed at that time that I could do a good job there, but I've moved on since. The position carried responsibility for both fire and safety, we are familiar with the comments regarding H&S people not being competent at fire safety, that's another argument I suppose but it may have been the case? When I was in the fire service my last station covered that factory so I have good knowledge of both the company and the local area. I mention that because there was great publicity over emissions from the plant via a very tall chimney, lots of scare tactics by the local media. There was an explosion and fire not long after my interview, attended by my old watch and I received lots of interesting comments about that incident. I think I may have prevented that with my knowledge of fire safety but we will never know. The recent fatalities will be investigated by HSE who will eventually provide a report and possibly a prosecution, but that may not be the employer as it was, I believe two contractors who died. It could be that the contractor's safety procedures were not suitable and sufficient? It could be that management at the plant do not have good policies regarding control of contractors? We do not know and to immediately accuse the employer, because they have a poor track record, is a knee jerk reaction that we as professional health and safety people should not get into.