Rank: Super forum user 
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As safety professionals we constantly get people telling us that we want to stop kids with conkers, that we offer blinking obvious patronising advice........which I always so is not so.
And then...............on the IOSH home page in the article about lorry safety is this gem.
"As for lorry drivers themselves, he added: “Employees should be taking warm clothes and provisions such as hot drinks with them in case they get stuck. If the worst comes to the worst, they should always have a mobile phone for use in an emergency.
“Keeping constantly aware of their location will also help if they reach a point where rescue is the only option."
WELL BLOW ME DOWN WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT?
IOSH should NEVER be getting involved with nanny state patronising advice......don't even get me started on the idiot TV and Radio presenters who keep telling us to "drive carefully".
Is it only me that can see the idiotic and banal nature of that statement?
I hope Jeremy Clarkson does not see this article..........................
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I couldn't agree more.
But then have you seen how some people are driving in this weather!
I await the Darwin awards, natures way of maintaining 'common sense' in the gene pool.
Or maybe I'm not taking this seriously enough and should find another career? :-)
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Yes you are correct it is patronising to the vast majority, but there are a minority of idiots out there who need this advice.
Yesterday I used the train (a rare & sole destroying event!). The train we were waiting for was delayed and several “through trains” passed through at very high speed. There were audible warnings, messages on the screen & a big thick yellow line on the platform warning you to stand clear.
None the less a self important woman (yacking on her mobile) thought she knew best and stood over the line near the platform edge, she was very lucky she was not sucked (she almost fell over) into the train’s path as it wizzed through. She won’t do that again in a hurry! A fellow passenger says he sees similar incidents on a daily basis. I feel sorry for the train drivers.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Just had an email from my mate telling me the following advise has been issued, - When travelling in extreme weather conditions the Government advise you should carry a shovel, flask, wellies, rock salt, hi-viz jacket, a blanket and a torch. He looked a right idiot on the bus.
Just thought some of you needed cheering up a bit, just got in after going to the shops, my it is chilly out you know.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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"Keep calm and carry on".
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Rank: Forum user
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I'm sorry but I don't think it is too patronising, and I included this feature on our monthly newsletter without a thought.
For those of you involved in long distance freight, you do frequently lose track of your location as you are either following a sat nav or a long, straight and boring road.
I just took the statement as a small tip to concentrate that litlle bit harder on your location, taking heed of what junction you're at on motorways or landmarks etc. on "A" roads.
I know most of you will say you do this but the reality is we don't - especially on long haul journeys. Having been involved in HGV breakdown, and had experience in 999 calls, its amazing that the majority of people don't know what junction they are near if they have a:broken down or b:ringing to report a crash they've witnessed.
Furthermore, can you honestly say you've never had a motorway journey where you suddenly 'forget' part of it through day dreaming? Just me then....!
As a profession I think we are getting a bit addicted to "conker bonkers" and afraid of offering advice at the fear of getting ridiculed. It's possibly a subject for a new thread, but I think we need to concentrate on what our priorities actually are.
Drive safely ;-)
Ian
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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Sorry Pikeman but I think it is good advice.
How many times do we hear don't drink and drive? Still ignored.
Far better advice than the HQ RAC man last week . When asked about the snow in Eastern England and what drivers should do ? Reply "leave their mobile phones on charge alll night" and that was it.
Alex
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Rank: Super forum user
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In the past I have witnessed HGV drivers in with inappropriate footwear
e.g. flip flops/crocks/sandels/slippers + shorts + "T" shirts getting out of their cabs in weather as bad as we are experiencing now.
Do I think IOSH should comment?
It seems a sad state of affairs if they feel that there are so many drivers who would benefit from this advice.
Take Care
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Rank: Super forum user
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As professionals we often forget that much of the advise published by all sorts of companies is often repeated so it is not forgotten. Those who have said that it is aimed at people who often forget such simple precautions are quite correct to call for repeatedly stating the obvious, not for those in the profession, but for the general public, who tend to forget the advise given last year.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user 
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H&S is there to state the obvious, I have just completed a R/A walking in snow and ice and one for gritting i.e. put grit on the floor prior to filling the spreader as this will give you a good grip under foot. Look at some of the other things required, R/A for making cups of tea or using a water boiler should have signage stating it contains boiling water. Forgive me if I am wrong but the reason you boil a kettle or use a water boiler is to make a hot drink so the water should be hot.
I have, in the past, been asked by a solicitor if I could produce training records for using a hand rail whilst walking up and down stairs
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Health and safety is in principle applied common sense. The fact that some people don't apply it keeps us in a job...don't knock it too much.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Ray
I agree. The problems are that common sense is not that common. Also, common sense only works when the person applying it is correctly informed. I have seen many cases in my field where the person's application of 'common sense' has resulted in problems, simply because what they thought was common sense did not reflect the true facts. As I keep on saying: "The danger arises when you don't know that you don't know".
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Common sense is all learned from experience and being taught. A baby has none, a small child has little whilst an adult is assumed to have gained some more. Does that make all adults sensible or behave sensibly?
Sometimes we all need reminding of the obvious even if sometimes it is laughable. My experience on the ice yesterday in totally inappropriate footwear is a prime example of that and the bruise is evidence of momentary stupidity.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I have somewhat reluctantly issued guidance for staff in bad weather on my departmental heads insistance as I felt this was a bit patronising and I do have more pressing matters to attend to. This includes advice on sensible footwear, layered clothing, planning journey etc.
I was hot desking at another site last week and all I could hear was someone in the next bay bleating on about being cold and how she nearly fell over twice in the car park. On strolling through* I noticed high heels, short tight skirt and flashes of bare midriff..........
This was 5 days after the first snow fall, so I don't think she was caught unawares, she just was not able to make the link between bad weather and the need to consider her own actions.
Nic
* yes I am nosey
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Motorways
Motorways have marker posts every 100 metres, they will have a top number and a bottom number. So 23 over 4 means that you are 23 Kilometers and 400 metres, from the start of the motorway.
As long as you know which direction you are going you are going you can then pass this information on top whoever wants to find you.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Pikeman I think you are wrong.
I live up north and in winter carry sleeping bags, boots, shovel, food, drink and even a mini camping stove etc in the car. Always there. Never needed it but may need to one day. I also do the same when I'm on the hills, carry loads of kit just in case.
Just sensible I think. Wouldn't dream of not doing either.
However, I know for a fact that not everyone does the same. So obviously what is sensible to me is not sensible to everyone. Some people just think it won't happen to them. Others live in the dream world that wherever they are and whatever the circumstances a knight in shining armour will come and rescue them.
By reminding people what to take with them there is always the hope that someone is made to think twice and take it with them.
It's no different from reminding people not to remove the guards on a machine. Obvious not to remove the guards and put your hand in I think but then accident statistics would suggest otherwise. Ditto the amount of people who don't go prepared on the road in winter.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Phil43 wrote:Motorways
Motorways have marker posts every 100 metres, they will have a top number and a bottom number. So 23 over 4 means that you are 23 Kilometers and 400 metres, from the start of the motorway.
As long as you know which direction you are going you are going you can then pass this information on top whoever wants to find you.
But that would mean the driver would have to get out of his/her vehicle to get the information. Walking along a motorway is hazardous enough then add a bit of snow and ice....
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Rank: Super forum user
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Pikeman wrote:"If the worst comes to the worst, they should always have a mobile phone for use in an emergency.
Patronising maybe, but useful .......
Not round here, most areas have no mobile coverage!
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Rank: Guest
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To Clairel - nice to have you back. O and I agree with what you say. 20 years ago I was a Scout Leader taking kids out on camps and expeditions in all weathers and any time of the year. I used to send home a kit list to the parents to ensure they had the right stuff and clothing.
Last week I met up with one of my former scouts - he told me he carries all the stuff Claire does in the boot of his car and learnt it and remembered it from his scout days.
Enough said??
Rich
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I don't think this advice is patronising as we all know 'common sense' isn't that common.
I always put a bit about winter safety in our monthly newletter to staff, whether they are driving, cycling or walking to work. I have never been told I am patronising by doing this - just taken like I am sending a friendly wee reminder.
As Clairel said I would not dream of setting off up the mountains without appropriate gear for all weathers that could come your way - without much notice or spending day on bike empty handed, so likewise given recent conditions would make sure my boot was stocked with correct equipment before setting off on a drive in these conditions.
Lessons learnt hopefully for the next bout of snow due about Wed I think!!
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SOUND ADVICE.
As a company, my employer regularly sends vehicles across to mainland europe. every year we post a notice to driving staff containing advice for driving in adverse weather conditions also, instructions for fitting and removing snow chains along with the advice that a practice session in good conditions can be beneficial.
It is surprising how many drivers still FORGET to take a torch / gloves / waterproof trousers with them despite the annual reminder.
I am happy to say however, that over the years our vehicles and staff have been deployed in the mountains of europe the only injuries sustained have been employees taking to the ski slopes for personal pleasure.
So wrap up warm folks, load up the grit and the shovel, snow chains, cup a soups and the car kettle, winters on its way.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Despite some good intentions with guidance which may seem to be 'blindingly obvious' to some, there is also the backside covering element to this advice. It really irks me when I see notices, labels and so-called warnings, which in reality do little to prevent harm, however the powers that be now believe they have insulated themselves from any liability.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I always carry a sleeping bag.
And a portable gas heater which also heats water....so I have milk, water and all the rest....and pot noodles.
It all fits into two plastic storage containers....
And a first-aid kit.
Spare wheel (correct pressure) along with jack and brace.
And a can of tyre-seal (just in case)
Not forgetting the fire extinguisher and the warning triangle, along with the spare bulb kit (no, I do not drive a focus...which needs half the front of the car dismantling to change a headlamp bulb)
No kitchen sink, although one of the storage cases may well do in an emergency.
Oh, and several risk assessments for operating portable gas appliances along with a method statement for erecting a steel-framed building (no, I do not know where it came from)
Happy Christmas.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Not about lorry drivers, but there are some postmen in Newport Gwent who have only worn shorts now for about 18 months or so in all kinds of bad weather including snow and heavy frosts. They are doing it for charity and good luck to them I say.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Having been one of those that gets called out when everyone else is told to stay at home, I have a tendency to carry all the right gear and know how to use it. I've seen plenty of suggested kit lists for driving in harsh weather, most of which are quite sensible. What does surprise me is that I hardly ever see spare bottles of screenwash listed.
It's amazing how quickly you can use it all up at this time of year!
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Rank: Super forum user
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During the winter months I always tow a caravan behind my car just in case anything happens. If it does I am as snug as a bug in a rug.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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farrell wrote:During the winter months I always tow a caravan behind my car just in case anything happens. If it does I am as snug as a bug in a rug.
Farrell,
I think your BB coding is dodgy, it should read:
[sarcasm] YOUR TEXT HERE [/sarcasm]
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Rank: Super forum user
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Sarcasm, surely not. Your right I don't tow a caravan, I have 6 pairs of socks, 3 pair of trousers (not jeans) they stay cold when wet, 7 different thin layers two coats. 2 pairs of sturdy boots, with chains just in case i need to walk anywhere. 2 flasks one with soup and the other with strong sugary tea. A hat, a scarf. 2 mobile phones a sat nav so I can pinpoint where I am. I also take four friends with me in case I break down they can push. Used to just take the wife but she now wants me to start the car and allow her on the inside of the car.
I have a camping stove. I take prepacked meals in case I get stuck for more than an hour. I also have a flag in my car with a 40ft extending pole in case it snows I can stick this in the ground and people will find me.
And after packing the car I am that tired I just stay in.
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Rank: Guest
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Farrel, I have almost the same as you except for the pole, which I will start sourcing as soon as I finish this posting.
My wife however is still content to be strapped to the roof rack, so I'm quite lucky there, and before anyone starts, a full Risk Assessment has been done and is reviewed annually!
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Rank: Super forum user
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sean wrote:Farrel, I have almost the same as you except for the pole, which I will start sourcing as soon as I finish this posting.
My wife however is still content to be strapped to the roof rack, so I'm quite lucky there, and before anyone starts, a full Risk Assessment has been done and is reviewed annually!
Flags 'R' us have agreat range.
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Actually, we can all laugh, but many years ago I was caught in sudden unforecast snow on the infamous 'Cat and Fiddle' A537 road between Buxton and Macclesfield in the early hours of a sunday morning. I managed to get my ancient rear- wheel drive ford stuck at the very summit and started skidding sideways towards a ditch. No mobile phone reception and pitch black, only the 'going out' clothes of shirt, trousers and slippy leather shoes on. For those couple of minutes I felt very alone and very stranded. It can, and does, happen to you at some point.......
PS I managed to turn around and went the long way back instead.
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Rank: Super forum user
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ian mitchell wrote:Actually, we can all laugh, but many years ago I was caught in sudden unforecast snow on the infamous 'Cat and Fiddle' A537 road between Buxton and Macclesfield in the early hours of a sunday morning. I managed to get my ancient rear- wheel drive ford stuck at the very summit and started skidding sideways towards a ditch. No mobile phone reception and pitch black, only the 'going out' clothes of shirt, trousers and slippy leather shoes on. For those couple of minutes I felt very alone and very stranded. It can, and does, happen to you at some point.......
PS I managed to turn around and went the long way back instead.
so do you now carry a number of items just in case i.e. extra clothing, camping stove etc.
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Rank: Forum user
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I don't carry the overboard items that are being jested about earlier in the thread, no. I do carry a pair of decent boots, high visibility coat, warning triangle and first aid kit though, although the latter two are standard issue in the car when new. I also learned my lesson regarding old cars with no ABS/ Traction Control etc on them.
Perhaps I ought to do, but as safety professionals we really shouldn't be making the decision to travel when ropey weather is forecast and set a good example in the first place!
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Actually, I have to agree with earlier posters that some absolute idiots make no attempt to moderate their driving behaviour even in harsh weather conditions. Tailgating, not indicating , exceeding the speed limit by a lot etc. These are bad enough at any time but in fog/ sleet/ rain etc!!!!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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ian mitchell wrote:I don't carry the overboard items that are being jested about earlier in the thread, no. I do carry a pair of decent boots, high visibility coat, warning triangle and first aid kit though, although the latter two are standard issue in the car when new. I also learned my lesson regarding old cars with no ABS/ Traction Control etc on them.
Perhaps I ought to do, but as safety professionals we really shouldn't be making the decision to travel when ropey weather is forecast and set a good example in the first place!
Whilst obviously some of the posts were posted in jest with a great deal of sarcasm, I'm not sure if my post set that string of posts off?? And yet I don't think what I carry is overboard (I must stress that the mini stove is something called a pocket rocket that I use for backpacking and very tiny). Something to dig me out, sensible warm boots, warm clothing (sleeping bag in case it's a long stay), biscuits and the facility to make a warm drink. Doesn't seem overboard to me. Not with temps of minus 20 up here but a week ago. I often travel on small country roads and the chance of me getting stranded is therefore high in winter. If you spend most of your time in the city then you wouldn't need what I need.
Still think IOSH and others organisations giving advice is sensible not nannying.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Ian,
agree with you that a lot of the items are over the top and I think it is this type of thing that often has people laughing at health and safety no wonder the road is long for the safety professional.
PS I don't tow a caravan or carry all the other items mentioned in my other posting, but don't tell anyone. I was even being sarcastic, I was just enjoying the post and being a H&S professional even if I am not CMIOSH.
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Rank: Super forum user
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farrell wrote:Ian,
agree with you that a lot of the items are over the top and I think it is this type of thing that often has people laughing at health and safety no wonder the road is long for the safety professional.
PS I don't tow a caravan or carry all the other items mentioned in my other posting, but don't tell anyone. I was even being sarcastic, I was just enjoying the post and being a H&S professional even if I am not CMIOSH.
Should read wasn't even being sarcastic.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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This is basic RA and it's sad some of us can't cope with it :)
I agree 100% with Claire et al,
It all depends - driving 2 miles down the m5 in Devon in sleet, or across the North York moors in a blizzard are two different things!
That said a number of motorists last year got stuck on 'telegraph hill' in Devon a friend involved in the rescue effort pointed out, how despite severe weather warnings some of these people were very very ill equipped and grateful for a tax payers foil blanket and cup of tea!
Health and Safety is basic common sense in alot of cases but people don't apply it, our job is to change and influence behaviour.
If only one person takes note and a life is saved have we not done our bit.
Farrell, careful on Friday we'll all chuckle if you get stuck in weather, because your caravan is pulling you back :)
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