Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
decimomal  
#1 Posted : 20 December 2010 11:46:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Can anybody point me in the direction of examples where a person administering first aid had been successfully sued? We have recently had a member of staff attend a one day EFAW course and a 'helpful' colleague has told then that they now need to get insurance to cover them for any first aid that they may administer outside the work environment in case thay get sued! My understanding is that they may well get sued, but I do not know af any cases where such action has been successful. I guess there may be cases where a good samaratin has been inadvertantly negligent, but there is something in the back of my mined telling me that these cases have not been successful. I am sure I will get lots of replies and opinion on this one so would be grateful if we could stick to facts as far as possible floks as oppossed to what if's and not go off on too many tangents. Ta.
barnaby  
#2 Posted : 20 December 2010 11:56:52(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

I'm not aware of any cases and I think it highly unlikely- I dimly recall a TES article saying something to the effect of there being no case to date of a teacher (or any other) being sued as a result of giving emergency aid. My previous experience of this is insurance actually being strongly recommended on first courses and in one case you could purchase it at the course!
Heather Collins  
#3 Posted : 20 December 2010 11:59:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

Try this thread http://forum.iosh.co.uk/...aspx?g=posts&t=95757 the consensus then was that there were no successful cases and that this whole thing is an urban myth. Although the quoted thread starts of with an "at work" situation, by about post 18 it is talking about the "outside work" area and there are some useful links.
Guru  
#4 Posted : 20 December 2010 12:09:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Guru

decimomal  
#5 Posted : 20 December 2010 12:13:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thanks folks. I have also found some helpful information on the Resuscitation Council (UK) Website.
m  
#6 Posted : 20 December 2010 12:36:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
m

I have recently 'renewed' with St John Ambulance. They informed us that you should not get sued so long as you do what you are taught. They give free insurance for the duration of your qualification (three years) as a back up.
kevkel  
#7 Posted : 20 December 2010 14:09:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
kevkel

As a first aid instructor this question often comes up in class and people have always known or heard of somebody being sued. This is absolute nonsence. There are two legal issues at stake: 1. Tresspass to the person- This is unconsented touching. An unconscious person cannot give consent and therefore cannot refuse treatment. Legally you may also provide treatment where it is necessary to save life and limb without consent. A caveat to this may be a suicidal person who apparently has the right to end their life or so I have been informed. 2. Negligence- if you stop to help a person you automatically owe them a duty of care. Failure to corform to the standard of care you have been trained in and certified to perform which results in an injury, damage or loss which would not have been suffered by not being treated could possibly result in an action for negligence. However it would be my assertion that for this to happen you would have to had made the situation considerably worse with your treatment. I.E. put others at considerable risk or make a minor injury a life threatening situation. you do not need insurance to administer but it is advisable for those training you in first aid to have professional indemnity insurance. Hope this helps Kevkel
CRJames  
#8 Posted : 20 December 2010 14:49:10(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
CRJames

To my knowledge no one has ever been sued for administering first aid, either in or out of the working environment. We as an organisation automatically cover all the people we train on FAW/RFAW/EFAW courses with our membership scheme, so that they are insured, as much for peace of mind than anything else, outside the workplace, but we have had a number of enquiries recently regarding cover in the workplace, as some people seem to think they are not covered under the companies public liability insurance, which obviously they are. Clive James Training Development Manager St John Ambulance National Headquarters
Ken Slack  
#9 Posted : 20 December 2010 15:43:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

kevkel wrote:
Negligence- if you stop to help a person you automatically owe them a duty of care. Failure to corform to the standard of care you have been trained in and certified to perform which results in an injury, damage or loss which would not have been suffered by not being treated could possibly result in an action for negligence.
Hi Kevkel, I have never heard of this before, is there and legislation that could be quoted in a court to support this? Cheers Ken
Terry556  
#10 Posted : 20 December 2010 16:19:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Terry556

Well said CR James, what is this country coming to,
kevkel  
#11 Posted : 20 December 2010 16:25:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
kevkel

Ken, I am not sure but I have a legal interpretation which I am working off. It was issued in Ireland for the pre hospital emergency care council with regards to their Cardiac First Response course which is incorporated in the Occupational First Aid course here. It aims to address this very issue. Kevkel
teh_boy  
#12 Posted : 20 December 2010 16:32:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

quote=terry556]Well said CR James, what is this country coming to,
Well said Terry. When I read this post I yet again found myself worrying about what's going wrong. We live in a society where everything is someone elses fault (take the snow) and where no one wants to take responsibility. As an active first aider (with SJA) I have stopped at several RTAs, attended to people in the street and also administered first aid whilst at work (as well as with St John of course) In any of these situations did I ever think I might get sued... Nope I just wanted to help! I've seen too many people drive or walk by a casualty, where even the untrained could help!!! Calling an ambulance and talking to someone is often help enough!!! For all those who walk on by one day it might be you needing help! Rant mode off: There is 8" of snow outside and I want to go play in it... Is it home time yet?
decimomal  
#13 Posted : 20 December 2010 19:39:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thanks all.
RayRapp  
#14 Posted : 20 December 2010 20:56:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Might be a bit late in joining the party but, having researched this very topic some years ago I can confidently say: there has never been a successful civil case against any first aider for giving first aid. There was one case which was amicably settled out of court regarding a high profile charity. 'Negligence - if you stop to help a person you automatically owe them a duty of care.' Never seen or heard this before. A duty of care may exist under certain circumstances, such as a employer to employee, road user to another road user, ie where proximity can be established. There is NO duty to help someone who may be in trouble, not even for a first aider to provide assistance. In order to be sued successfully for negligence the claimant would have to have a very good case where not only the first aider carried out first aid beyond his/her training, but they caused and injury which was reasonably foreseeable and the judge thought it fair, just and reasonable to impose liability - highly improbable for someone who was genuinely trying to save a life. Don't have nightmares.
pete48  
#15 Posted : 20 December 2010 21:12:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

Just to add to Decimonals points. The case usually referenced is, I think:- Cattley v St John’s Ambulance 1988. In his ruling the judge said that " the St John’s ambulance volunteers had acted professionally and in accordance with their training manual which he described as “the first aiders bible”. The judge found them not to be negligent and gave judgement for the defendants." Thus if you do what you have been trained to do and it is in accordance with latest publsihed guidance you have nowt to fret about. That applies whether you are acting for your employer, as a volunteer or just a good samaritan passing by. The high profile out of court settlement was I think the tragic case of a runner in a public marathon who collapsed and died despite SJA volunteers using an AED. I think I am right in saying that, after the case was settled, the SJA set up a memorial fund and used that fund for training volunteers in the use of AED. p48
pete48  
#16 Posted : 20 December 2010 21:13:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

Sorry I meant Ray's points, doh! p48
kevkel  
#17 Posted : 21 December 2010 23:15:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
kevkel

'Negligence - if you stop to help a person you automatically owe them a duty of care.' Never seen or heard this before. A duty of care may exist under certain circumstances, such as a employer to employee, road user to another road user, ie where proximity can be established. There is NO duty to help someone who may be in trouble, not even for a first aider to provide assistance. I was not suggesting that you have a duty to stop and assist someone. But if you do stop and help them you owe them a duty of care. This is based in common law.
teh_boy  
#18 Posted : 22 December 2010 08:19:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

I think it's worth noting that under UK law the basic tenet is that the actions of one person are judged against a reasonable person of the same standing. So a duty is in effect owed but only to a standard that a judge would see reasonable. So if you have no first aid skills there is going to be very limited duty. If your a first aider this is going to be in line with training. And obviously for medical profesionals this is going to be much higher. Again I don't see the problem as IMHO there is a moral duty of care that far out weighs this.
Guru  
#19 Posted : 22 December 2010 08:38:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Guru

The document found on the Resuscitation Council UK link above is very clear regarding duty of care and certainly worth a read for anyone that is unclear on the subject (page 8).
Barrie(Badger)Etter  
#20 Posted : 22 December 2010 08:58:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Barrie(Badger)Etter

Ken Slack wrote:
kevkel wrote:
Negligence- if you stop to help a person you automatically owe them a duty of care. Failure to corform to the standard of care you have been trained in and certified to perform which results in an injury, damage or loss which would not have been suffered by not being treated could possibly result in an action for negligence.
Hi Kevkel, I have never heard of this before, is there and legislation that could be quoted in a court to support this? Cheers Ken
Apols for coming in rather late in the day on this subject. What I believe (IMO) Kevkel is refering to is the Neighbour principle which is acknowledged in the courts of helping / aiding your fellow man to whit you should not be sued unless you drastically make the situation drastically worse. BADGER
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.