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SDCL-Pete  
#1 Posted : 22 December 2010 11:58:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

Hello all,

I'm looking for some help or advice on how to comply with PUWER regulation 6. Here's a bit of background on us that might be relevant; we are a small design consultancy and fabrication company consisting of 8 people (staff and management). We only recently expanded into the realms of dealing with health and safety; I've been given the task of getting us compliant. I've worked the workshop floor for 4 years previously to this and know most of kit better than other staff (laser machine and welding kit being the exceptions). I've composed RA's for nearly all of our kit, where we identified a significant residual risk we have developed SSoW's, implemented weekly checks on the dangerous machinery, keep maintenance logs and have a PUWER assessment check list in place for general compliance.

What I really need help with is where the "inspection" statute comes in. We record a weekly check of the safety features and have 12 monthly services as planned preventative maintenance (recorded); so, where does an inspection fit into this? How do people comply to this reg? Do you need a dossier with all the inspection requirements and records of inspections? Or just a record that an inspection has been carried out? What different features would an inspection cover from a user check of ESD's, guards, visual electrical inspection and control system inspections? I believe we have staff experienced and competent enough to inspect our machinery and wont need an external service as long as I can figure out their place in it all.

The main areas we are concerned about are with relation to our guillotine, press brakes, power rolls and plasma cutting gear. If anyone has any advice or help for me; it would be much appreciated. I really don't know where to start drawing the line between these procedures......

Peas out

Pete
SteveL  
#2 Posted : 22 December 2010 12:27:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

If you look at schedule 3 PUWER it will tell you what needs to be checked and recorded, you also need to look at Power press acop, which is different from puwer acop.
ISBN 0 7176 1627 4
ISBN 9780717662951
HSE web site free down loads
SDCL-Pete  
#3 Posted : 22 December 2010 12:59:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

Thanks for the reply! That's the most useful info I've been given so far. Certainly a good starting point.
I'm a little unclear on one other thing now though; we have 2 hydraulic press brakes which have no fly wheel or clutch system to operate their stroke. Are these subject to the same regulations (power press regs)? Or just covered by PUWER in general?
Also the ACOP states a guillotine does not apply to regs 32-35; sooooo, does this mean theres no statute for inspection and we devise the schedule at our discretion based on use, manufacturers info, etc?
SteveL  
#4 Posted : 22 December 2010 13:31:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

Nooo go back to reg 6 and it there states that you will maintain, record and register your inspection.

"Where work equipment is of a type where the safe operation is critically dependent on its condition in use and deterioration would lead to a significant risk to the operator or other worker, you should arrange for suitable inspections to be carried out."

Press Brakes are mentioned in the regs are they not.

"The reports and certificates must be kept available for any inspector of health and safety to see for two years and for six months respectively.

"While a certificate of an inspection and test is current it should be kept on or near the power press to which it relates. You will often find it convenient to provide a holder on the press for this purpose. After expiry, all certificates must be kept available for inspection for a period of six months."
SDCL-Pete  
#5 Posted : 22 December 2010 13:53:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

"Regulation 6 states:
(1) Every employer shall ensure that, where the safety of work equipment depends on the installation conditions, it is inspected –
(a) after installation and before being put into service for the first time; or
(b) after assembly at a new site or in a new location,
to ensure that it has been installed correctly and is safe to operate.
(2) Every employer shall ensure that work equipment exposed to conditions causing deterioration which is liable to result in dangerous situations is inspected –
(a) at suitable intervals; and
(b) each time that exceptional circumstances which are liable to jeopardise the safety of work equipment have occurred,
to ensure that health and safety conditions are maintained and that any deterioration can be detected and remedied in good time."

What is the statue for "suitable intervals" in terms of a metal cutting guillotine? Are there any? Refer to earlier question.

Also, found this:
"26 Part IV of PUWER 98 does not apply to:
(a) presses which do not have a clutch mechanism, for example pneumatic and hydraulic presses;
(b) power presses when they are being used to work materials other than metal;
(c) power presses, processes and circumstances listed in Schedule 2 of PUWER
98 (see page 33). "

So, our hydraulic presses are not subject to the statutes therein but still subject to a reg 6 inspection, presumably for us to devise?
SteveL  
#6 Posted : 22 December 2010 14:05:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

with referance to your earlier question

again

Where work equipment is of a type where the safe operation is critically dependent on its condition in use and deterioration would lead to a significant risk to the operator or other worker, you should arrange for suitable inspections to be carried out

your choice, your liabilty
SDCL-Pete  
#7 Posted : 22 December 2010 14:26:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

I thought this was the case but found it very unclear trying to establish that as fact. Thanks for confirming this and for the info. Its been more help to me than anyone else (even the H&S consultancy we paid for!). My personal feelings are 6 monthly would be good for the amount of use the equipment gets, combined with RA's, SSoW's, restricted use of equipment, Toolbox Talks and the safety features of the machine itself should be sufficient to cover us. It's now just a case of devising and inspection routine and report system.

We were operating on 3 staff at first and so had no need to comply to many HSE regs, so we have no "after installation" inspection reports. Do you know where we legally stand on this now we have expanded to 8 staff? I guess the best tactic is to devise and carry out our inspections ASAP......

Thanks again.

Pete
smitch  
#8 Posted : 22 December 2010 14:58:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smitch

SDCL-Pete

As stated by Steve L:

PUWER 98 requires that work equipment that is exposed to conditions causing deterioration liable to result in dangerous situations is inspected at suitable intervals; the purpose of such inspections being to ensure that the integrity of the equipment is maintained and that any such deterioration is detected and remedied in good time.

Examples of such equipment would IMHO include hydraulic presses.

Further and in connection with the above then The Management Regulations risk assessment (if suitable and sufficient) should determine whether the work equipment could deteriorate in such a way as to pose a potential risk to operators or others.

Therefore the scope of the PUWER 98 inspection and the competence of the person who carries it out will be dependent upon on the findings of that assessment.

Putting the legal side of it to one side then as a means of demonstrating best practice, I have always advised that hydraulic presses are subject to the same inspection regime as power presses.

As for the now increased number of employees, then I would not get too hung up on what you may not have had in the past, but simply concentrate on ensuring that what you have in place now keeps people safe and well, and ensures continued compliance.

Cheers

Steve
SDCL-Pete  
#9 Posted : 22 December 2010 15:17:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

smitch

To be honest, that's the approach I was going to take (on all fronts).

Where a failure of a clutch and fly wheel system could be dangerous to an operator; a failure of hydraulics could be just as dangerous on our machines (or pneumatic failure on our guillotine).

Thanks for the advice.

What does the acronym "IMHO" stand for by the way?
sean  
#10 Posted : 22 December 2010 15:25:57(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

In My Honest Opinion
SteveL  
#11 Posted : 22 December 2010 16:05:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

In My Humble Opion
smitch  
#12 Posted : 22 December 2010 16:13:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smitch

SDCL-Pete wrote:


What does the acronym "IMHO" stand for by the way?


In My Humble Opinion

Cheers

Steve
sean  
#13 Posted : 22 December 2010 16:24:36(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Steve, you can be humble, I like being honest!

bob youel  
#14 Posted : 22 December 2010 16:31:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Talk to your insurers as they will have something to say and inspection is different to check and examination I also advise that U get some competent H&S advise especially so as statements like "3 staff at first and so had no need to comply to many HSE regs" is not true!
smitch  
#15 Posted : 22 December 2010 16:37:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smitch

sean wrote:


Steve, you can be humble, I like being honest!


Sean

its our differences that make this profession and indeed the world we live in such an interesting place.

Cheers

Steve
SDCL-Pete  
#16 Posted : 22 December 2010 17:13:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

bob youel wrote:
Talk to your insurers as they will have something to say and inspection is different to check and examination I also advise that U get some competent H&S advise especially so as statements like "3 staff at first and so had no need to comply to many HSE regs" is not true!


I appreciate they're different, in my first post I said I want to start drawing the lines between the differences between these things. That's what I'm asking about.

So, what's your advice about the staff levels situation and how an inspection differs from an examination? Any definitions for me? What should we do as we have never had any involvement with H&S before?

We subscribe to www.thsp.co.uk, what's their reputation like in your eyes? This is all new to us as a company and I hoped some experienced professionals might be able to help clarify things. The only training I've received in reference to PUWER has been self taught. I've had so many people tell me different things but cant find half of it anywhere in statute, presumably because I'm new to this and have little experience or because its open to interpretation and utilises the term "so far as is reasonably practicable". As far as I was aware I was asking about the very things you highlighted. Maybe my communication skills are lacking...
SDCL-Pete  
#17 Posted : 22 December 2010 17:17:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

And our insurers had very little input about PUWER regulation 6. No one seemed to think inspecting a guillotine was an issue as it is serviced by a sub-con engineer regularly.
SteveL  
#18 Posted : 22 December 2010 19:29:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

An inspection is something that is carried out by a competent operator who is looking for operational safety faults on a daily or weekly basis.
an examination is a formal look at the safety features and requirements for safe operation.

ie checking your oil water, lights and tyres on the car, (inspection)
MOT (Examination).
SDCL-Pete  
#19 Posted : 23 December 2010 11:35:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

stevel

So, Reg 6 of PUWER ACOP states "Inspection
130 This requirement for the inspection of work equipment builds on the current but often informal practice of regular in-house inspection of work equipment, some of which is already recommended in other HSE guidance.
131 Inspection does not normally include the checks that are a part of the maintenance activity although certain aspects may well be common. Nor, for the purposes of this regulation, does inspection include a pre-use check that an operator may make before using the work equipment. Additionally, while inspections need to be recorded, such checks do not."

Our operators check the safety features on a daily basis before use (not recorded) and once a week I inspect the safety features (guards, ESD's, cables, isolation points and a visual of mechanical devices such as slides, runners etc.) of the restricted machinery. We record the result of the inspection but don't have a record of each inspection (a check list/document from that specific inspection) on a register attached to the machinery. My inspection is a little more in depth, is it a good idea to have a dossier style document detailing your checks and tests in an inspection (results as well?)? I think from our conversation so far I'm pretty much compliant, just not sure how detailed our records documentation needs to be. I guess the more detailed the better? Or would this just be overkill and adding unnecessary paperwork?

So presumably as there are no statutes for "examination" of our kit (under PUWER) this will be enough? We've always checked and maintained our machines for both operators safety and productivity safety, it seems like I've been over-complicating it and this reg just pertains to recording what we already do out of common sense.

Thanks again for the advice.
bob youel  
#20 Posted : 23 December 2010 12:37:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

SDLC-PETE

We are here to help I assure U but we are also not a substitute advice service so please note to us; What is your post, training etc as U appear to be very positive to me but if the fan gets covered your company would be expected to have a suitable R7 person on board [either employed or via an agreement]

The staff level situation [<5 >5 etc] is not worth anything in a court I can assure U irrespective of what is written down, as an individual who falls down will bring an individual case against U and in court an individual will be treated as an individual!

Check, inspect examin are completely different areas e..g. the average driver should be able to check their tyres but could they examin them?

To understand what SFAIRP and similar terms means U need to evaluate case law, laws that reference it and individual situations

More info please & if U are in the N-west let us know
Bucksbloo  
#21 Posted : 23 December 2010 17:22:53(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Bucksbloo

I don't know if this will help, but I work in the printing industry and guillotines have specific risks associated and PIAC have produced a booklet which gives advice.'The printers guide to H&S'
Under PUWER reg 6 (2) they need to be checked by competent and trained engineers on a six monthly basis checking all safety components. The guillotine also has daily checks that the operator signs off which is kept with the machines.
I assume the basic checks will apply to any industry, hope this helps.
Steve Sedgwick  
#22 Posted : 23 December 2010 19:48:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Sedgwick

quote=SDCL-Pete]Hello all,
Here's a bit of background on us that might be relevant; we are a small design consultancy and fabrication company consisting of 8 people (staff and management). We only recently expanded into the realms of dealing with health and safety; I've been given the task of getting us compliant.Pete


Pete you seem to have made a good start with equipment exams, inspections and checks as this may be your highest risk and others posters have added advice regarding PUWER.

Don't be put off by scare stories of you going to court etc etc, the employer, is responsible for H&S not you. If anyone goes to court it is almost always the employer.

But I agree with Bob regarding your company obtaining further HS Advice. PUWER regs are only one H&S subject that you need compliance on.

I would advise your company to employ someone to review your whole HS requirements and to provide a report that would direct you to compliance (not just whats wrong but guidance on how to do it). This should take only 3 to 5 days work for a consultant for a small business such as yours, it will also be a good experience for you and advance your HS skills.
Steve

JohnW  
#23 Posted : 25 December 2010 21:23:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Bucksbloo wrote:
I work in the printing industry and guillotines have specific risks associated and PIAC have produced a booklet which gives advice.'The printers guide to H&S'
Under PUWER reg 6 (2) they need to be checked by competent and trained engineers on a six monthly basis checking all safety components. The guillotine also has daily checks that the operator signs off which is kept with the machines.
I assume the basic checks will apply to any industry, hope this helps.


Bucksbloo, what you describe is good practice for that industry and for the type of guillotine used.

What MUST be done and what SHOULD be done and what COULD be done can be three different things, and what TO DO can be tricky to figure out :o)

We should always distinguish between what the PUWER reg says, and what additionally the ACoP says, and what additionally might be good practice developed by a company/industry.

The checks you mention won't apply to every industry. Inspection schedules (frequency and nature/content) depend on the specific risk assessment which should determine what hazards may be presented if the equipment is installed incorrectly, or by the equipment through deterioration of parts or mechanism, or through the conditions/environment of use.

JohnW
SDCL-Pete  
#24 Posted : 11 January 2011 08:50:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

Thanks again for the advice everyone!

bob youel wrote:
SDLC-PETE

We are here to help I assure U but we are also not a substitute advice service so please note to us; What is your post, training etc as U appear to be very positive to me but if the fan gets covered your company would be expected to have a suitable R7 person on board [either employed or via an agreement]

Sorry, but what is an R7 person?

Like I said we have paid a company called "The health and Safety People" to do an audit and review us. I have a folder with guidance notes on what we need to do to comply. Their guidance on everything is quite vague; between what they've given us and my own reading of legislation and ACOPs has got us reasonably up to speed. My main issue was trying to establish if there were any statutes for guillotine inspections (for example) not just on frequency but what they should cover. The answer is there isn't. Not for our kit.

So, I need to use the manual and my knowledge of the machinery to devise inspections for anything that may deteriorate and cause a risk and all safety features; then implement it at a time scale based on our use/conditions.

Sorted. Think we strayed a bit. That's not a bad thing though as I could do with knowing a bit about some reputable places for advice. I contacted our consultancy for some guidance on what we need to do for DSEAR and they just copy and pasted the legislation off the internet and sent it to me. That's not really guidance in my opinion, I wanted advice on specifically how I justify on a DSEAR RA that our levels of metal dust are negligible. Advice on how to comply for us specifically not a bit of text I found days before any ways....
Jane Blunt  
#25 Posted : 11 January 2011 09:07:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

SDCL-Pete:
An R7 person refers to the Management Regulations, 1999. You can download the Approved Code of Practice and Guidance free of charge from here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l21.pdf
The document is highly recommended reading.

This Regulation requires every employer to have access to a person competent to give them advice on the measures that they need to take to comply with H&S law. This could be someone within the organisation (which is preferred, because they usually know how things really work) or someone outside the organisation.

The problem that can arise in appointing someone from within the organisation is to make sure they receive enough education and training to understand the breadth and depth of the issues they need to deal with. Many employers will operate with a combination of in-house personnel and access to specialist help when they need it.
SDCL-Pete  
#26 Posted : 11 January 2011 10:06:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

It seems my employer wants me to take up that mantle. I'm receiving just about any training I'm asking for atm. Legally, right now, that's THSP.
SDCL-Pete  
#27 Posted : 11 January 2011 10:07:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDCL-Pete

Oh, and thanks btw Jane.
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