Rank: Forum user
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Can anyone recommend or know of an online asbestos awareness refresher course. All persons have completed an asbestos awareness course but we would like to carryout some refresher training without the need for them to come back to the office. They consist of mainly site managers involved in new build and refurbishment work (note: we only manage the process and do not carryout any removal work) it would also need to meet the requirement of regulation 10 of CAW
Thanks in advance
Paul R
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Rank: Super forum user
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On its own, does such an on-line resource constitute "refresher training" or merely an opportunity to confirm retention of prior learning? I believe the ACoP associated with Reg 10 is looking for more than this via a varied topical annual programme.
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Rank: Super forum user
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At the risk of being shot down by my peers, can I suggest that if it was merely a refresher, you could devise a short in-house training course via a PP presentation. I did just that last year and made sure the topics covered by reg 10 CAW were included. Just a thought.
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Rank: Super forum user
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CAR Reg10 ACoP is quite specific Ray, stating that the refresher should not be a repeat of that initial training. Para 147 of L143
(source acknowledged as HSE):
'Refresher training should be given at least every year and should be appropriate to the role undertaken. Those persons who require only awareness training could have refresher training as part of other health and safety updates. Employers should identify the specific training needs of their employees so that the refresher training can be appropriately tailored. It should not be a repeat of the initial training.'
Guidance with this section goes on to state:
Refresher training should include reviewing where things have gone wrong and sharing good practice.
Paragraph 139 is also relevant:
'All training should be provided by someone who is competent to do so, who has had adequate personal practical experience and who has a theoretical knowledge of all relevant aspects of the work being carried out by the employer.'
This suggests to me that the people best placed to deliver this are most likely in-house, and that acceptable formats would include toolbox talks and the like?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks Ron, it would not have been an exact 'repeat of initial training' because the Abestos Awareness training was by an external provider. I wonder how many employers actually provide refresher training? In my experience very few tradesmen are provide with the initial training in the first place.
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Rank: New forum user
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Sorry for the late reply but why don’t you have a look at the Safe Contractor guidance notes for Asbestos awareness training.
Regards
Joe
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Rank: Super forum user
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Do you have a reference for that Joe?
Rae:
My interpretation of the ACoP and Guidance is that the intended requirement for 'refresh' content should vary and be more specifically targeted to the trade/ profession and the organisation's arrangements for managing asbestos risk
You're spot-on with the compliance issues - one the commissioning client must be extremely wary of. In the event of an incident involving his appointment, the HSE will take a dim view. This awareness training extends to IT people, those installing window blinds etc etc. There are real knowledge gaps out there, and I fear there has been too much focus on "construction" issues by HSE and others.
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Rank: Forum user
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AA training needs to be repeated annually, however this camn be done by way of a TBT and a brief overview of what your conpany requirements are.
1/2 hour?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Good points again Ron, as an aside, I am not aware of any employer being prosecuted for failing to provide AW training/ refresher. Unless there was a serious incident I suspect the regulators would only issue an EN, therefore weak enforcement equals ubiquitous non-compliance.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Indeed Ray, and brings me back to one of my continuing soap box issues, that the way to effective compliance is via proper diligence by the commissioning client, and that this is a key message to get across by all of us advising employers with responsibility for property.
I personally don't think this issue is given sufficient publicity or attention by the HSE in their web pages or guidance. In fairness, the HSE have put significant resource into asbestos topics, roadshows etc. over the last few years, but the message doesn't seem to be consistently reaching the SME contractor.
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Rank: Forum user
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Ray,
I remembered this fairly recent case and it does indeed involve prosecution under reg 10 of CAR 2006 relating to training and awareness. Whilst not a particularly hefty fine in the scheme of things - this is probably due to the size of the company - it is nevertheless a prosecution.
But I am with you and Ron on this and do lament the knowledge gaps that I still encounter by all manner of building users, not just tradespeople. I do understand the standpoint of the HSE who have aimed their campaigns at the most 'at risk' trades but, there are others out there who need educating too.
Gerry
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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Gerry
Thanks for that link, very interesting and as I had earlier suggested, the prosecution arose AFTER a serious incident from asbestos exposure. The regulators need to be more proactive and take measures BEFORE employees and others are exposed to ACMs.
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Rank: Forum user
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RayRapp wrote:Good points again Ron, as an aside, I am not aware of any employer being prosecuted for failing to provide AW training/ refresher. Unless there was a serious incident I suspect the regulators would only issue an EN, therefore weak enforcement equals ubiquitous non-compliance.
Just to let you know. A company has just been prosecuted in Portsmouth for failing to give their emplyees Asbestos Awareness Training under Regulation 10 of CAR2006.
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Rank: Forum user
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I am amazed how many construction/refurbishment companies do NOT put "ASBESTOS" on their risk assessments when tendering for work. They should at least be aware that asbestos may be present and at least state something like "the asbestos register must be consulted at an early stage" preferable on any start up meeting. I have been presented with 3 companies risk assessments for refurbishment, and not one even mentioned asbestos!!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Leslie
Thanks for that additional info, I would be interested to read about the case.
I suspect that many RAs do not include asbestos related risks because they are generic, cut and pasted from one document to another. As a rule many RAs are very poor in quality and often miss specific hazards associated with the work. RAs are often nothing more than 'paper safety'.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Some of you may remember my recent post concerning a major refurbishment of a store, pre 1960 built, where extensive AIB was "discovered" during the work. The HSE have not taken any enforcement action on this and it seems the Sheffield Office are not evven addressing the Survey or Training deficiencies - certainly emphasises the weak enforcement.
On the original matter of refresher training the intention should always be to keep the regular update training relevant to what is happening in the company. The more often employees deall with the asbestos issue the less refresher time is required and vice versa. I would still look seriously at full updating every 3 years however. You are always confronted by the problem of new employees however and one has to consider how these are to be assessed for asbestos training and competence. I do not know of any refresher type standard syllabus or package as the need is really organisation specific.
Bob
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi All
Just to make my request a little clearer, the reason behind the question is that all staff have undertaken a 1/2 day asbestos awareness course within the last 12 months and we will need to start to roll out the refresher training, the reason behind the online course is based not only on the need to not have to bring all staff back to the HO who are spread far and wide over the London Boroughs and beyond, but these staff also have a great deal of experience in the issues regarding Asbestos and are fully aware of the Company procedure regarding asbestos, so I do not want it to be another re-run of the initial training but do not want it too watered down that it serves no purpose, therefore small reminder on the right areas plus what is required in the regs would be ideal.
Please note that this is not driven by trying to cut cost but ideally want to get the right balance between the two, also all staff will have full training on a 5 yearly cycle unless there are any changes that require more HO training
Regard PR
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Rank: New forum user
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If you are still looking for a PP refresher course email me I will send you one.
Simon
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Rank: New forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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SimonZ,
I would remove your email from the forum post & PM anyone as you may well get significnat spam from this.
Any mods want to help by temporarily hiding the post?
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