Hi all. A friend skidded on snow/ice on a petrol forecourt and hit the fuel pumps. Does the petrol station have a duty of care to keep their forecourt safe for drivers or is it the drivers fault?

This might be difficult to argue but presumably your friend drove a few miles across a white landscape to get to the petrol station and might reasonably expect the snow to have fallen there too. We had a similar complaint from an employee who drove 15 miles then complained of snow in our carpark. I guess the insurances will pay up without recourse to H&S legislation.

The petrol station does have a duty of care under the previously mentioned OLA and possibly common law negligence, hence reasonable steps should be taken to ensure it is safe for customers. The DoC is not in question, however, to what extent the petrol station should be free from hazards, such as precipitation, is a matter of conjecture.

I would state that the driver is at fault - even with the attempt by the garage to make the area safe. He messed up! Come on - conditions change by the minute. The driver has the duty of care to drive to the conditions and not injure / damage anyone / anything. He did so guilty mi lord. How coud the girls sitting at the tills have control, of the forecourt? David

WHSW do apply; as a petrol station is a workplace for the staff working at that location and for those people officially servicing the petrol station e.g. Delivery drivers, maintainers etc and many people are at work whilst they are filling up at a petrol station e.g. Sales staff on their way to/from a sales meeting before setting off for home - refuse trucks filling up where their companies ahve contracts with certain suppliers - the list goes on and on! However reasonably practicable must be considered here and I agree that the driver is lucky if they do not get sued Additionally its usually cheaper not to grit etc and chance a claim as many are now doing, because few claims are now getting past the common sense phase with the 'Claims Are Us' types because judges appear to have got their sensible heads back on There are cases [sports centres are examples] where community minded businesses have gritted only to lose in court because they gritted improperly! -They are saying " 'why bother' we will risk a claim and fight it thereafter"

ACT OF GOD. This phrase denotes those accidents which arise from physical causes, and which cannot be prevented. 2. Where the law casts a duty on a party, the performance shall be excused, if it be rendered impossible by the act of God; but where the party, by his own contract, engages to do an act, it is deemed to be his own fault and folly that he did not thereby provide against contingencies, and exempt himself from responsibilities in certain events and in such case. Get out of jail free card, for insurance companies

Came around a left hand bend on a minor road, slipped on the icy road and damaged a parked car and own, fully comp insurance, was informed ice is due to weather and not controllable there for not covered, clause being act of god.

Stevel, fight your insurers very hard and find a new one at renewal. Take recommendations from friends etc on claims performance and take that into account, not only price.

Can't see the lawyers being bothered by this, one for the insurers to sort. Whilst not all that relevant, I would suggest that the entire Petrol Filling Station is a workplace, where the undertaking is retail sale of fuel. The general duty to "others" arising from that undertaking is an obvious one. Other H&S and related risk issues include: Modern PFS have dispensers mounted on substantial high-kerb islands -there to stop collision with the pumps themselves. A build-up of snow and ice would tend to negate that safety feature. Operators of Petrol Filling Stations have obligations to mitigate risk and comply with environmental legislation. This means keeping all drainage and gulleys leading back to petrol interceptors free-running to allow any accidental spillage to be captured. A further incentive to keep the surface free of compacted snow and ice - particularly in the tanker off-loading area!

A Kurdziel has got it wrong when he states that the"Girls on the till do what they can do" Each retailer has a duty to ensure that his staff are competent, this includes the safety of subcontractors and the public. Unforunately many of the major oil companies operating in the UK generally use transient staff and have a high turnover of staff, therefore training is provided begrudgingly. The company who I am employed by maintains the forecourts, and we have been informed many times not to grit the work area incase of liability. This is something we strongly disagree with and we end up working safely after making the work area safe. With regards to driving safely on forecourts - you will find that every maintenance contractor operating on petrol retail forecourts will list the General public as the largest causation factor of all near miss and potential instances. generally through ignorance or impatience. I think that the icy conditions and confined areas on a forecourt would lead to more conservative driving, once again this is not the case and we witness erratic driving in all conditions - you can't blame the operator of the site for these instances; well not unless you want to jump on the litigation bandwagon where the £ signs light up before common sense.

Have I missed something? People are discussing duty of care and what the garage could have done but no one seams to have established what the garage HAD done! I almost had a similar experience yesterday it started raining up here in Yorkshire at about 7:30 the rain falling onto cold ground. As I started to pull up to the pumps my car went straight on. Fortunately I was doing much less than 20 MPH as I had felt my tyres slip a few times on the way to the garage. When I got home my own path was equally slippery as the rain had frozen over my own salt. 20 minutes latter my path was fine as the salt had worked. Don't know what the garage had done. The fact of the matter is salt is not some magic element it takes time to work. In some weather conditions an Ice film forms over the salt before it can work. Reasonably practicable for employers to do anything more if they have salted - the ground may still be slippery. Sorry for that rambling reply but sometimes we have to take responsibility for our own actions. Brian

To put this in simpler terms, if it was on the public highway the driver could be facing a charge of driving without due care and attention. A driver should drive within the conditions that prevail at the time. He was driving at 20MPH in close proximity to an obstruction, going to fast and was unable to control his vehicle, end of the news.

'It was winter, It was outdoors, there was snow all around, roads and other areas WILL be covered in ice. I'm amazed so many in H&S actulally think this driver was not responsible for his own actions, and we wonder why the profession gets such bad publicity.' Because the full facts are not known there are certain presumptions being made here. Approaching a petrol garage forecourt at 20mph may or may not be too fast. It could also be that the road was relatively clear of snow and ice but the forecourt was not, hence catching the driver off guard. Off course people should be responsible for their own actions. Equally those managing petrol stations and alike should do what is reasonable and it appears that no effort was made to clear and grit the forecourt of precipitation.