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Safety Witch		#1 Posted : 20 January 2011 10:08:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Has anyone ever been asked to present a CSCS card as an accompanied visitor to construction sites? I've been on loads and I've never been asked. I was wondering what the general opinion was with regards to site visitors but I would be interested if anyone has taken the exam as a visitor. According to the website the exam is the same as a site operative is this fair? Any points of view?
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brett_wildin		#2 Posted : 20 January 2011 10:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		A visitor should not require a CSCS card. What's next primary/secondary school tours of sites needing CSCS? What about the client or David Cameron? Only if you are working on site whether practical or professional should a CSCS be required. Induction and escort (not a ford) for all visitors.
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SteveL		#3 Posted : 20 January 2011 10:29:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		There is a yellow CSCS card, for regular visitors. The exam in question is not hard, it is only basic site safety questions. Is it fair, every other person who is on the site has had to take it. The question should be, is it fair to make a man/woman pay to enter a construction site to earn a living?
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Ajc100		#4 Posted : 20 January 2011 10:47:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		I have held a yellow visitors CSCS card for just over 5 years and have been asked maybe twice ever to show it. As stated above, all you need to do is the operative health and safety test and you can apply for one.
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MB1		#5 Posted : 20 January 2011 10:51:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		I wouldn't have thought the politicians etc who regularly visit the Olympic site are required to hold a CSCS visitor card for photo opportunities so why would a visitor if it's a one off visit? If a regular visitor then makes sense to apply for the yellow card! Good income provider this scheme though!
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brett_wildin		#6 Posted : 20 January 2011 10:54:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		What then becomes the definition of regular visitor?
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Safety Witch		#7 Posted : 20 January 2011 11:06:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		I am being told its the clients site requirement so no choice. CSCS might just as well put a turnstile up on the site gate and charge an entry fee. :-(
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MB1		#8 Posted : 20 January 2011 11:07:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		The client will always win hands down I'm sure!
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brett_wildin		#9 Posted : 20 January 2011 11:30:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		If its the clients requirements and it is set out in the pre construction health and safety plan, then it's the clients requirement and should be adhered to.
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SteveL		#10 Posted : 20 January 2011 11:33:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		The CSCS and CPCS carding system is in place because of the MCG, and is their way of achieving a minimum safety standard. You will never win because they use the CDM regs that any reasonable request in the interests of safety must be enacted. It will also be written in the site rules. You will also find that if you apply for a trade card then unless it is C&G or NVQ type then you will not get it. Dips, degrees and MSc will not allow provision for a card to be issued. If you are CMIOSH then the best you will ever get is a supervisors gold card. The definition of a regular visitor is a person who attends site more than twice.
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Safety Witch		#11 Posted : 20 January 2011 11:51:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Interesting discussion. As a CMIOSH and Dip2 OSH I would have thought I was more than qualified to walk around a site with a guide! But as its clients requirements there's no choice and I don't really mind - it all goes on the CPD. I was on a site yesterday and had to point out about 6 or 7 things which were just plain wrong (bent shackles etc). All of the people on site produced a CSCS card but were happily working away. It makes you laugh, if it wasn't so serious it would anyway.
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brett_wildin		#12 Posted : 20 January 2011 12:40:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		SteveL, You are incorrect. As CMIOSH you would not qualify for a Gold card as it is Trade related. As a CMIOSH you would undertake the MAP test and then qualify for the White/Yellow card which is the Professionally Qualified Person Card. If you have obtained an NVQ Level 4 or 5 then you can apply for the black managerial card again subject to TST. Where did your definition of regular come from. Safety Witch With regards to walking around site with a guide. If it is someone who has an interest in the site such as the site manager. Isn't that a good thing? At least they will be paying direct attention to your opinion and you can give advise/guidance to the areas concerned rather than them second guessing from your inspection report.
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brett_wildin		#13 Posted : 20 January 2011 12:43:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Link to the cards available to Professional Institutes. www.cscs.uk.com/upload_f...ents/pqp_2011_grades.pdf
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SteveL		#14 Posted : 20 January 2011 12:46:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		brett wilden Construction Health and Safety Officer Construction Health and Safety Officers may apply for Gold, Experienced Supervisor or Manager cards depending on their qualifications and experience. To qualify for any of these cards Construction Health and Safety Officers must pass the Supervisor Health and Safety Test. Construction Health and Safety Supervisors who are applying for the card using their ISOH membership, must get their application endorsed by IOSH before submitting the form to CSCS. Definition of regular comes from our major contracter
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freelance safety		#15 Posted : 20 January 2011 12:50:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Stevel, I have a black H&S Managers card. This was due to the fact that I was CMIOSH and had post-graduate qualifications i.e. not an NVQ but qualifications attributed above NVQ level 4.
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coges		#16 Posted : 20 January 2011 12:56:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Try going on cskills website and look up profiling route, you do not need an NVQ but must be able to fill out and submit a related evidence form, this must then be reviewed and submitted to CSCS
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SteveL		#17 Posted : 20 January 2011 12:57:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		freelance safety I to hold black mangers H&S card, you will also be aware that NEBOSH and MSc OHS are not acceptable to the CSCS when applying for a card CSCS offered Gold card for the holding of CMIOSH
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freelance safety		#18 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:02:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Stevel, you seem to be contradicting yourself. If not contradicting, you are very unclear about what you are saying. I have a black card as I’m CMIOSH with post-graduate qualifications. I think one of the issues here is the chaging of goal-posts by CSkill/CSCS.
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brett_wildin		#19 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:03:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Thanks Steve on the definition Appologies for my question sounding abrupt. It wasnt meant like it sounded. I would have to disagree with your Major Contractor that more than two days could be concluded as a reasonable definition. There are a lot of factors that would need to be taken into consideration. i.e. project duration, twice a day, twice a week, twice a year etc. Obviously thats their choice though. The roles you have now refered too (not CMIOSH I assume) are construction related and to aquire them needs NVQ Lvl 3 and the test as you have stated.
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freelance safety		#20 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:04:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Apologies for the spelling mistakes. NB. I’ve only ever been asked at one site for my card and I’ve visited hundreds over the years the scheme has been in operation.
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SteveL		#21 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:07:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		freelance safety what I was trying to say is that if you apply for a CSCS card using CMIOSH then the CSCS will only offer you a gold supervisors card. The CSCS have changed the level of qualifications required to gain higher cards.
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brett_wildin		#22 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:13:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		This is card info from the CSCS website Institution of Occupational Safety and Health (IOSH) Technician Member Tech IOSH Technical, Supervisory & Management Trainee Card Red Graduate Member Grad IOSH PQP Card White/Yellow Chartered Member CMIOSH PQP Card White/Yellow Chartered Fellow CFIOSH PQP Card White/Yellow
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freelance safety		#23 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:16:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Stevel, I know they changed the card system some time ago (I remember the new posters around 2009). But after speaking to CSkills the H&S cards in terms of qualifications had not really changed. I and many others who had Platinum cards were updated to the new Black cards. I do know of several people who have put in their first application, who have the smae qualifications as me and have received a Black card this last year? In terms of the original post, most of the sites I visit never ask to see my card.
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SteveL		#24 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:18:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		brett wilden post 14 is from the CSCS web site. If you apply for a trade card in H&S you will receive with your CMIOSH status a Gold supervisors card.
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brett_wildin		#25 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:23:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Why would you want a trade card as CMIOSH. You are a Professionally Qualified Person?
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freelance safety		#26 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:30:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		If you are CMIOSH you can apply for the PQP white/yellow card. However, if you can demonstrate the criteria as an experienced H&S CMIOSH Professional in construction and undertake the relevant test you can apply for the Black card (I’ve just phoned them up to check!). I think a lot of the confusion is down to the rule changes by CSkills.
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SteveL		#27 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:31:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		brett wildin If you applied for a safety officers/managers card within the construction industry it will be classed as a trade card.
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Gallagher39165		#28 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:34:36(UTC)
Rank: New forum user		Basically no visitor,even the Clients CEO or Audior is legally allowed to walk on a site without supervision from a Site Person who is currently au fait with every aspect of 'work place activities and associated dangers'.They will require a basic signed of induction and must 'hi vis clothing'(vest or jacket) and safety helmet when on their site tour. CSCS card was not implemented for visitors but construction site personnel -Supervisors and general workforce.It demonstrates the cardholder is a 'Professionally Qualified Person re Health and Safety Awareness' ie proctive approach to Health and Safety rather than reactive
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SteveL		#29 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:35:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		freelance safety Thank you for the clarification, suppose that's what I should have done really.
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freelance safety		#30 Posted : 20 January 2011 13:41:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Worth noting that TechIOSH members would get the red card. You can actually download the Professionally Qualified Person (PQP) Card (Listing of Acceptable Competence Assessed Grades) via the CSkills website at:- http://www.cskills.org/s...blecardschemes/cscs.aspx
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Safety Witch		#31 Posted : 20 January 2011 15:37:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Stevel WRT post 12. Are you saying you think they would listen to me more if I had a yellow CS card rather than Dip2 OSH? I'm their external auditor, I'm sure they listen to me anyway ;-)
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SteveL		#32 Posted : 20 January 2011 15:56:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		safety witch WRT post 12 Never said a word not my posting
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Safety Witch		#33 Posted : 20 January 2011 16:05:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Ah I see someone had put your name in the first line. Should have been brett_wildin
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SteveL		#34 Posted : 20 January 2011 16:11:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		safety witch Have enough trouble defending my own views without somebody else's being attributed to me, not unless their right of course, ha ha
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Safety Witch		#35 Posted : 20 January 2011 16:16:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Its been a long day here.. that's my excuse!
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brett_wildin		#36 Posted : 20 January 2011 16:28:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		safety witch wrote: Interesting discussion. As a CMIOSH and Dip2 OSH I would have thought I was more than qualified to walk around a site with a guide! But as its clients requirements there's no choice and I don't really mind - it all goes on the CPD. I was on a site yesterday and had to point out about 6 or 7 things which were just plain wrong (bent shackles etc). All of the people on site produced a CSCS card but were happily working away. It makes you laugh, if it wasn't so serious it would anyway. Safety Witch. My reference was to the effect that is good to have site managers/supervisors etc. walking around with somebody in your position. They can deal with situations immediately rather than waiting for your inspection report/Audit. Also they can learn from you. No reference at that point about CSCS. Brett
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Safety Witch		#37 Posted : 20 January 2011 16:40:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		I see what you mean. No I never walk round on my own, prob get lost anyway! No I always feedback immediately (like 'what the bloody hell is he doing?') and a written report.
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