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decimomal  
#1 Posted : 09 February 2011 16:41:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

This should get the grey cells going....... Situation is that a funeral director has been asked to quote to carry out a funeral service on the first floor of a building - not a traditional Church, but a converted modern building. Access to the first floor is via a wide stairway with a central banister, which makes access by beareers either side of the coffin difficult. Would it be acceptible to remove the banister if feasible to do so? (i.e. would this itself be a safety issue?). DDA is addreessed by a person lift but this is not practical in the circumstances. There is no space on the ground floor to carry out the funeral service. NB:The manual handling issue relating to the stairs is being considered separately. The funeral director has a dilemma in that if he turns the work down then another company will definately do it (somehow), and is concerned at the knock on effect to his business so he has to make a commercial decision. What are your thoughts?
CraigEls  
#2 Posted : 09 February 2011 17:05:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CraigEls

One thing to consider. I think I am correct in saying, if by removing the central handrail the distance between remaining handrails exceeds 1800mm then this is unacceptable due to building regs. Hope this helps Craig
Safety Smurf  
#3 Posted : 09 February 2011 17:14:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Thinking outside of the box, assuming the coffin is being borne on the bearers shoulders. Can they go up either side of the bannister?
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#4 Posted : 09 February 2011 18:00:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

There is no need to keep the coffin in a horizontal position and that may provide a solution. I went to a funeral of an uncle of mine just a few years ago and though the church was a very traditional stone built structure the service hall was on the first floor. A small slightly winding staircase led to the first floor with an additional small lift for the infirm....and the deceased. With barely enough room to swing a cat in the lift, I was amazed that the funeral directors got the congregation seated and only then put the coffin into the lift, on its end, and sent him upstairs for the service (nearer my God, and all that?). At the end of the service, the coffin was carried out to the lift while the congregation remained seated and down he went, on end, as he came up. I was somewhat amused by this, but it was done with great care and in a perfectly decent and respectable way with much decorum, and there was no distress caused to anyone. Just takes a bit of discretion, obviously managed by the church and all of those funeral directors that work there.
Mick Noonan  
#5 Posted : 09 February 2011 18:43:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mick Noonan

Are you really contemplating bearing the coffin up flights of stairs? Is this not the very definition of unsafe? I've had the honour of bearing a coffin in the past and it's not easy. It's heavy, very heavy, even for the fit and strong. The idea that you're going to also take it up stairs seems wrong to me. How are you going to prevent it from slipping? Mick
Oldroyd19659  
#6 Posted : 09 February 2011 19:23:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Oldroyd19659

Hi Decimonal I agree with safety smurf - think outside the box. Can you not have them cremated so you can carry them up in an urn. Hope this helps
brett_wildin  
#7 Posted : 09 February 2011 20:32:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
brett_wildin

Decimonal, This link will give you the building regs. details for the requirements of handrails on commercial stairs that craig was pointing you towards. www.turnings.co.uk/stair-regulations.html you will need page 7 I havn't got my current copy of regs to hand but am sure it has not changed. You have not identified the overall width of the staircase. Manual handling which is not the question asked, there are plenty of powered stair climber type products on the market.
decimomal  
#8 Posted : 09 February 2011 20:41:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thank you all for the responses so far. My comments are: One thing to consider. I think I am correct in saying, if by removing the central handrail the distance between remaining handrails exceeds 1800mm then this is unacceptable due to building regs. Hope this helps Craig Thank you Craig – that is one query answered. Thinking outside of the box, assuming the coffin is being borne on the bearers shoulders. Can they go up either side of the bannister? Has been considered and may be an option There is no need to keep the coffin in a horizontal position and that may provide a solution. I went to a funeral of an uncle of mine just a few years ago and though the church was a very traditional stone built structure the service hall was on the first floor. A small slightly winding staircase led to the first floor with an additional small lift for the infirm....and the deceased. With barely enough room to swing a cat in the lift, I was amazed that the funeral directors got the congregation seated and only then put the coffin into the lift, on its end, and sent him upstairs for the service (nearer my God, and all that?). At the end of the service, the coffin was carried out to the lift while the congregation remained seated and down he went, on end, as he came up. I was somewhat amused by this, but it was done with great care and in a perfectly decent and respectable way with much decorum, and there was no distress caused to anyone. Just takes a bit of discretion, obviously managed by the church and all of those funeral directors that work there. Worth considering, but as you say, discretion (and dignity etc) is the key Are you really contemplating bearing the coffin up flights of stairs? Is this not the very definition of unsafe? I've had the honour of bearing a coffin in the past and it's not easy. It's heavy, very heavy, even for the fit and strong. The idea that you're going to also take it up stairs seems wrong to me. How are you going to prevent it from slipping? Mick Tricky one given the issue of commercial interests – if they do not do it, somebody else will. However, the manual handling aspect is being considered. I agree with safety smurf - think outside the box. Can you not have them cremated so you can carry them up in an urn. Hope this helps I don’t think this is an option
m  
#9 Posted : 10 February 2011 12:48:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
m

Oldroyd19659 wrote:
...I agree with safety smurf - think outside the box....
Pun intended? My view is to have the funeral directors prepare the body such that it can be put vertically in the lift. If possible do the delivery and collection away from the eyes of the congregation. Alternatively just use an empty coffin and do a subtle changeover before the cremation or burial
decimomal  
#10 Posted : 11 February 2011 10:32:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Divine intervention solved the problem - the Pastor has put a stop on the coffin coming up to the first floor as there is no realistic and dignified solution. Many thanks for the input.
Canopener  
#11 Posted : 11 February 2011 13:25:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Result then? And I just loved the more 'tongue in cheek' solutions suggested!
MaxPayne  
#12 Posted : 11 February 2011 14:53:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

Coffins and dead bodies not being my field, but how do undertakers and the like tackle situations where the deceased have to be recovered and there are tight corners and stairwells to negotiate?
SteveL  
#13 Posted : 11 February 2011 16:05:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

Maxpayne Because the body bag is zipped closed they stand them up and use the handles on the side to maintain momentum and vertical. Even when using a lift they are stood up.
Bob Shillabeer  
#14 Posted : 11 February 2011 16:33:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

This is a bit toung in cheek. The person id dead. The family are very sad, but they are kept out of the way by the undertaker until the body is agin presented in a nice coffinf, in a nice place which seems very respectful and takes full account of the berieved family concerns. That is not to say there are some strange things that go on behind the scenes. This is afact of life, I have seen some very strange behaviour toward bodies (often quite funny) but it is about the living that care is taken, so what the eye dont see dont matter comes to mind.
Graham Bullough  
#15 Posted : 11 February 2011 18:25:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Just a general note about moving coffins: Soon after joining my present employer, a local authority, I noticed and asked about the fact that each lift car in its 1960's high rise blocks of flats contained a sizeable niche under the back wall. I was told that it was a "coffin hole" to accommodate a horizontal coffin whenever any resident died and needed to be moved out. Such buildings posed various problems, including how to access and safely remove asbestos from vertical ducts containing numerous service pipes and cables. However, the presence of the coffin holes showed that the architects or lift designers had at least anticipated the likelihood that the lifts would be used to move coffins and body bags and therefore specified their design accordingly. Graham Bullough
decimomal  
#16 Posted : 11 February 2011 19:07:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

m wrote:
Oldroyd19659 wrote:
...I agree with safety smurf - think outside the box....
Pun intended? My view is to have the funeral directors prepare the body such that it can be put vertically in the lift. If possible do the delivery and collection away from the eyes of the congregation. Alternatively just use an empty coffin and do a subtle changeover before the cremation or burial
I am told that this is something not normally done because the person is prepared in such a way so as to stop potential leakage, but the deceased is not restrained in any way inside the coffin and so when tipped they may move about and exert unintended pressure on the lid or sides which may then come loose.
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