Rank: Forum user 
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Hi All,
Could anyone tell me if I were to complete the AP course as a money saving venture for my organisation am I able to create the RAMS & LP but delegate my duties to a Slinger/Signaler/Banksman.
As a roofing contractor we often have more than one crane loading roofs at a time on different projects.
I am willing to train some operatives but am not completely sure of what training they would require to ensure we are compliant with all regs/law/LOLER.
Any comments/help would be appreciated
Kind Regards
Mr H&S
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Rank: New forum user
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Hi Mr H&S
As the AP (CPCS card A61 Appointed Person - Lifting Operations, A62 if A40 held) you do not have to be present at every or any lifting operation that you have created a lifting plan for during the course of the operation.
If you think of the lifting plan as a 'special' method statement containing all the appropriate information, arrangements, calculations etc which those carrying out the actual lifting op need to comply with. Just like any other 'normal' method statement the person that drafts it wont necessarily be on site.
However just like all method statements the person writing them must be familiar with the task. This is particularly important in the case of the AP. Although you don't need to be there during the lifting operation, it is very important that you visit site to gather as much information as you can e.g. where the crane can be positioned (you'll need this to identify type and size of crane), position of overhead cables, adjacent buildings, road layouts ground conditions etc (you'll learn all about this type of stuff on your course).
Although you wont need to be on site during the lift there is a requirement for a crane supervisor to be present (CPSC card needed for this also; A62 Crane/Lifting Operations Supervisor)
It is not appropriate for the crane operator to be in control of the lifting operation as they have to concentrate on the control of the crane at all times. However, for a simple lifting operation the Appointed Person may nominate the slinger/signaller to be in control (again another CPCS card holder required; card A40 Slinger/ Signaller)
I hope this helps Mr H&S.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Also make sure that U are competent to train people as if you are not a competent trainer and an accident happens in the future U personally will probably be looked at/blaimed if something goes wrong. This 'sitting next to Nelly [where Nelly knows the job but not how to traine somebody]' type of training is only suitable for the most basic of things nowerdays
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Rank: Super forum user
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H S Hunter is right if dealing with companies from the UKCG but if you are dealing with smaller companies they may not require CPCS carded people. Most of the Major UK Crane companies run AP and Lift Supervisor courses but non CPCS. These courses mirror the CPCS course but are cheaper as you do not need to register with Construction Skills.
If you go onto the CPA there are plenty of free downloads to assist you in what route to take.
My personal opinion would be to use the CPCS route as it would give you more scope when tendering for work.
Regards Alex
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Rank: Forum user
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All Thank you for you valued advice,
Hunter, great help thanks, I had an idea that the AP did not have to be present as I have been working with cranes for years & whilst a H&S advisor for a roofing company I also look over the RAMS & LP for cranage works.
Bob, I was not intending to train anyone myself, My concern was as Alex stated & my Director will ask can I do the AP course £900 & put 10 supervisors with crane slinger experience thru a basic banksman/slinger course £400 pp or will they have to attend a crane supervisor course at £750 pp
What does the law state?
If their was an accident & they did not have a CPCS how would the law/HSE look on this
We currently only have 3 employees with CPCS £1000 1st year £600 for red card SVQ forklift & 20 operatives with the in house 1 day at £200 which is accepted on most sites
Just to confirm All operatives I register on the in house course must have at least 5 yrs driving a car & be of a responsible manner i.e. no 18-20 yr olds
Again thanks for your advice
Mr H&S
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