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Lloy  
#1 Posted : 14 February 2011 12:05:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Lloy

Hi all, it’s a shame there isn’t a common sense approach to pricing, click on the link below for the full article. I welcome your feedback. The delegate rate is £295 + VAT for public sector and £895 + VAT for private sector. Group bookings: 3 public sector tickets for £600 + VAT, 3 private sector tickets for £2000 + VAT. http://www.hse.gov.uk/events/hsreform.htm
freelance safety  
#2 Posted : 14 February 2011 12:17:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

Is this is yet another money making scheme? I note that members of IIRSM and BOHS get discounts, I’m pondering as to why members of the largest health and safety body in the UK do not? As a sole trader I certainly won’t be bothering. As from last year I stopped doing free presentations with HSE when I found that charges were being made, I was never made aware of this. I and others colleagues, mainly sole traders, never charged for our services and on several occasions the accommodation was also given for free!
peter gotch  
#3 Posted : 14 February 2011 13:01:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Doesn't look to be value for money at £295 + VAT let alone £895 + VAT. I won't be travelling down from Glasgow! There's even a discrepancy on the website as to who is the keynote speaker.
Heather Collins  
#4 Posted : 14 February 2011 13:21:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

IOSH President Elect is chairing it and IOSH members get no discount while members of BOHS and IIRSM do? How ridiculous. Who exactly has this kind of money for a one day seminar where the speakers aren't finalised with less than two months to go before the event anyway... Not me!
freelance safety  
#5 Posted : 14 February 2011 13:30:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

Totally agree Heather. We seem to be getting invites to all sorts of seminars, providing we PAY!
chambers  
#6 Posted : 14 February 2011 13:50:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
chambers

Yes, why is the IOSH President Elect supporting an event that is discounted for members of other bodies but NOT IOSH members?
Guru  
#7 Posted : 14 February 2011 13:59:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Guru

Book me for a party of 20 please!
freelance safety  
#8 Posted : 14 February 2011 14:06:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

Guru, no discounts for you! Lol. Seriously though, we seem to be seeing numerous seminars at significant costs. What I seem to be seeing is groups of individuals promoting themselves for their own gain and with little, if any, forethought about the profession or representatives of that profession.
walker  
#9 Posted : 14 February 2011 14:17:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

All the hot air ( including that from IOSH) as a result of Lord Young has made no difference ( and I doubt it ever will) at all to my profesional activities, this is just an extension of that. The is a vast difference between the talk and what happens to the statute books. Ingore this drivel & concentrate on making the place of work safer.
walker  
#10 Posted : 14 February 2011 14:21:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Oh for an edit function - I never see my typos until after I've hit the send button.
John M  
#11 Posted : 14 February 2011 15:04:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John M

The HSE website communique on the Compensation Culture is most interesting. It flies in the face of what Lord Young had to say. We really are in conflict and such variances do nothing for the professional standing of health and safety. Of course in these days of austerity all revenue generating streams are very welcome. With lawyers and guest speakers commanding £1000.00 per day (or a one hour delivery slot) it vexes me to even consider attending these seminars. My advise for all folk is to look out for the free events. Jon
drussell  
#12 Posted : 17 February 2011 12:24:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
drussell

What really annoys me about this event is not the exorbitant price nor the fact that HSE don't make it clear that it is not something they are organising themselves. Its the blurb at the top of the page "The compensation culture in which we live has stimulated overzealous enforcement of health and safety laws and the need to redress the balance within the health and safety sector has never been greater,". Even Lord Young himself acknowledged in his report that we don't live in a compensation culture and that most of the reports of 'over-zealous enforcement' turned out not be about enforcement at all. This sloppy language re-inforces the misguided perceptions that most H&S organisations tried very hard to counter in their responses to the LY review. Yet they get put up on the HSE website without any disclaimer whatsoever!
John M  
#13 Posted : 18 February 2011 14:11:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John M

This "Compensation Culture" topic has no real credibility. THE HSE would now have us believe that there is in fact such as a culture if the heading merits credibililty or substantive rigour. In his Report and the very many seminars that followed the (un)noble Lord Young dismissed the culture as a myth and that there was no evidence to substantiate the claim. However, the very same LY in his address to the Conservative Party Conference in 2010 he hawked a different message. This is what he said at the Conference. ‘As a one-time lawyer, I am today ashamed of the depths some in the law have stooped to, with their aggressive “no-win, no-fee” advertising. ‘We have all seen adverts in the newspapers, on the radio and television, saying if you think you have a claim, come to us and if our solicitor agrees, you will walk away with a cheque for £500, just for putting in your claim. And that won’t affect any amount you might be awarded. ‘This is more than a free lottery ticket; this is a lottery where you win as you enter. What a temptation this provides to someone watching afternoon television. ‘This is not access to justice – this is incitement to litigate. And it must stop.’ Young added: ‘That is why we have a compensation culture. If anything happens to you it can’t possibly be your fault; sue someone, it won’t cost you a penny. That is why health and safety now looms so large in business, in education, in the health service. Not to stop accidents happening. But to stop being sued.’ Is it not time we rail against these damaging and deliberately misleading statements once and for all? I am doing my bit but IOSH and other stakekoldders need to be more procative in challenging mode than getting into bed with these people. Jon
John M  
#14 Posted : 18 February 2011 18:16:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John M

The full 9 yards as hawked on Sunday (yes Sunday) 3rd October 2010. ord Young: Ending Labour's Health and Safety culture The Rt Hon The Lord Young of Graffham DL, Sunday, October 3 2010 It is great to be back. When the Prime Minister first asked me to review the operations of Heath and Safety laws and this compensation culture that so bedevils us, I first thought - it must be made in Europe. No, it is largely home grown. First, the good news. We have one of the best records in Europe for accidents and deaths in the workplace and nothing in my report will change that. So all the rules and regulations relating to construction, manufacturing, chemicals and nuclear industries, even farming are untouched. But when these quite sensible rules were applied everywhere, particularly where they make no sense, they quickly became a joke and "'elf and safety" was born. My Review deals with non-hazardous activities where the risks are very low but the bureaucracy unbelievably high. My review deals with offices, shops and classrooms where I have searched high and low for any trace of common sense. As a onetime lawyer I am today ashamed of the depths some in the law have stooped to, with their aggressive "no-win, no-fee" advertising. We have all seen adverts in the newspapers, on the radio and television, saying if you think you have a claim, come to us and if our solicitor agrees you will walk away with a cheque of £500, just for putting in your claim. And that won't affect any amount you might be awarded. This is more than a free lottery ticket, this is a lottery where you win as you enter. What a temptation this provides to someone watching afternoon television. This is not Access to Justice - this is incitement to litigate. And it must stop. That is why we have a Compensation Culture. If anything happens to you - it can't possibly be your fault - sue someone - it won't cost you a penny. That is why Health and Safety now looms so large in business, in education, in the Health Service. Not to stop accidents happening. But to stop being sued. Those running small businesses live today in fear that being sued will bankrupt them. What do they do - they hire a Health and Safety Consultant to advise them. This consultant doesn't even have to be qualified. But they believe that if they follow their consultants report to the letter they will be covered by their accident insurance policy. Even if the advice it is patent nonsense. Hence the restaurant that won't give their customers a toothpick on "Health and Safety" grounds And all the other stories we read daily in the papers. We cannot allow untrained, unqualified and inexperienced consultants loose on the business world. And we won't. And it is not as if all this form filling, this bureaucracy, does not have a cost - for firms employing under ten it takes one person a full day a month just to comply. When my report comes out this burden will be substantially lifted, and people can get back to business. It is not just small business - it affects large firms as well. Many people who work in large firms have complained to me about their Health and Safety officers insisting on all forms of nonsense. How did we manage before we had all these Risk Assessment forms? It is almost as if filling in a form will prevent an accident - it won't. Taking care and using common sense will. So the new system will help firms both large and small. But not just business. Take our teachers. An important part of every child's education is school outings. It is how they broaden their horizon, learn about the outside world. Every time a teacher wants to take their class out they have to fill in a twelve page form to cover every eventually - even the weather eight weeks in advance! This does nothing to make the day safer - that is up to the common sense of teacher on the day. But adding this unnecessary burden onto a teacher's already heavy workload just makes it less likely that they will go. In the future they can just plan the outing. But it is not just business or education that is affected by Health and Safety. Every Shrove Tuesday is a Pancake Race in St Albans. This year, just before the start, along appears a jobsworth from the local authority. He said that as it had been raining they must walk, not run, and always keep one foot on the ground. Why? He had no authority to do that. What has it got to do with him? Remember when they stopped the traditional cheese rolling downhill race in Wiltshire. If I want to take a risk it is up to me. It is nothing to do with the local authority. Nor is telling people to remove hanging baskets in the street. Just on an officials say-so. All too often Health and Safety is used as an excuse to say no. In future it won't be. My review runs no risk of being pigeonholed. It will be government policy, approved by the Cabinet and the Prime Minister has asked me to stay on to see the changes through. All this is about more than just Health and Safety, important as that is. This is really about getting the economy going. This is about getting rid of unnecessary restrictions, the red tape that harms enterprise and protects no-one. It is about restoring an enterprise economy so we can pay our way in the world again. It is about creating the conditions to encourage self-employment, small firms, new startups, the enterprise that is the very bedrock of any successful economy. And where I hope to play a part in the years to come. When I last spoke at our Conference, unemployment was on its way down, strikes were at their lowest for fifty years and we were paying off the national debt. Yet ten years before we were a country dominated by the Unions and racked by strikes, the sick man of Europe with record unemployment and, guess what, we had run out of money. A typical Labour legacy. I hope that when the time comes for me to retire once more, unemployment will be way down, strikes but a memory and we will have stopped mortgaging our children's future. Only, this time let us do it a little quicker." I rest my case! Jon
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