Molph There could be more than interpretation of 'train the trainer'. That said, I attended a TTT course for CAT scanners some years ago. The course was not really aimed at people like me, but I was invited and went. Afterwards I was presented with the obligatory certificate and presumably I am now 'qualified' to provide training for CAT scanners. Never have, nor would, I might add, just in case someone posts you are not qualified...there you have it. Ray

There is some good info posted here so please take notice of it Just because we have been trained outselves it does not mean that we can train others so some people will never be affective trainers just the same as some people will never be the best operator of a piece of kit - it just means that we are all different with different skills etc If U end up in court U may be asked to justify your trainers competence and if they can demonstrate that they have been trained to train as against attending a course to 'operate'/'use' and then pass on info U have a better chance of justifying your position

molph Training is always a hard one and proving who is trained to train is a mine field. Where you are training and issuing a certificate I would suggest you need a minimum of CIEH train the trainer certificate. The syllabus would cover such things as (not exhaustive) presentation skills use of teaching techniques to address learning behaviours use of powerpoint/overheads/flipcharts Practical learning by utilisation of examples. This is to ensure that the trainer can be shown to be suitably qualified, then RayRapp hit the nail on the head with the need to ensure you can prove that the person is suitably experienced. For example could someone who has never been on a construction site and works in an office (with a CIEH Cert) be experienced to give working at hieght training - the answer is no. Therefore select your trainer/s to ensure that first they have some experience on what they are going to be training. It worthy of note that a TBT can be construed as training and information from a legal perspective but there would be no need to have training certification to engage the work force if you are a supervisor. It also worthy of note that should you have a incident that gives cause for the HSE to call that they will interogate trainer competence if the root cause seems to them to be a training issue.

Molph, I've been doing a little research on this myself as a means to improve our in house training. In my view, certainly within the H&S sector Train the Trainer is commonly used to describe a short course designed to both teach specific skills and those training skills necessary to pass on that knowledge to others. For example a good manual handing TtT course should provide competence to deliver the subject to others. In your example I hazard a guess (head down for guessing!) that those attending the WAH training (assuming this is fairly detailed WAH course ('including rescue') not simply how to use a stepladder safely) are not competent to train unless they have some other training qualification. This may be for example the 7303 course or something similar. You could argue that if they have previously attended a TtT course in another subject they may be competent to train following the WAH course. (The 'instructor' part of any TtT course is very similar, irrespective of the subject matter). Aside from the subject specific TtT course there are a number of other options The PTLLS (prep for training in the life long sector) and TSP (Training Skills and Practice - I think this was formerly TtT) for examples have a look at the CIEH website. Both focus on the 'formal' training session with the former a minimum if working in a training organisation. If you have either PTLLS or TSP you should be able to instruct in any subject so long as you have the necessary knowledge or skill set in that subject. Of course, trainer competence and knowledge are only part of the story, you will also need they right resources to deliver training effectively (The WAH training you describe is outside my experience but could it for example involve a mock up of a roof etc (I saw an HSE roadshow with something similar) would the course attendees have access to the correct aids to do the training properly and safely? There is still plenty of 'training' out there that can be delivered without the need for a formal training qualification but they are worth having, both from an audit trail viewpoint and as a means of improving the quality of training. I'd even advocate it for supervisors if it means the 'on the job' and other training is enhanced.

As far as I can see, no mention of aptitude. This "train the trainer" stuff seems to be flavour of the month just now. Training does not necessarily a good trainer make. In the absence of something quite specific like the C&G mentioned above, there is perhaps a risk of the employer putting the wrong people forward?

I have vague memories of a CITB trained FLT instructor loosing his accreditation about 5 years ago. I think he was prosecuted as well.