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Contractors view of CDM 2007 - pro's and cons
Rank: Forum user
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Can any contractors or PC's offer me their thoughts or experiences, good and bad, since the regs where implemented back in april 07.
I'm aware the HSE are currently reviewing the regs and have been looking at the CONIAC report from 2008 but I would like some examples for a short presentation i have been asked to do.
Thanks,
J
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Rank: Super forum user
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Smaller low cost areas: In my experience the better contractors who try to compliant are very regularly, and its becoming the norm, losing work to those contractors who do not care because their clients are not enforced nor do their clients care about anything except the bottom line
Larger higher cost areas; In my experience larger works are higher profile so they cannot hide as easily so have systems in place; some very good others not
This is a very general reply as there are many individual cases that do not fit the norm and irrespective of any law that U introduce unless it is enforceable and enforced etc then its a waste of time and effort
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Rank: Forum user
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Not from a PC but my opionion is that in the 4years working with CDM Regs the key parties still dont understand their own duties!! Including PC's - only one in my time has ever questioned the quality of the PCI produced by the CDMC - i still maintain some dont even pay any attention to it.
I feel that properly implemented and used by all in the project team including clients, designers, contractors etc the benefits would be massive.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would agree there are continuing problems with implementation, awareness and understanding however this is surely not the "fault" of the Regulations. Where there are "good" Clients, there has been a general progression towards improved practice filtering down to the smaller contractor appointments- "Supply Chain Pressure" and all that.
Where the culture is poor I would suggest there has been little change in attitude since 2007. If it comes to that, the same could probably be said If you were to reference other key legislation dates of 1994, 1992, 1974 or even 1966! For some, price alone will determine who gets the job.
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Rank: Forum user
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As a PC posts 2,3 & 4 have very much hit the nail on the head.
Good Points
When fully understood and all duties are carried out, it can help to develop small companies.
H & S awareness.
Communication between parties.
Delivery of a good end product.
Company reputation.
The good points can only be achieved if all parties carry out their duties.
Bad Points
Poor attitudes from parties.
Lack of enforcement
Not applicable domestically (non notifiable)
Lack of small company awareness
Non Competitive tendering (companies that fulfil their duties and those that do not)
Architects and clients commitment
In general I believe that when the CDM regs are applied to a contract/project a good quality end product can be delivered with a lot of satisfaction. It is not satisfactory when you see a contract you have lost, and it is evident that the PC is has no intention of being compliant (normally domestically, occasionally commercial)
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Rank: Super forum user
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I work for Clients, Principal Contractors and sub contractors (not all at the same time), and have also done some CDM-C work so have experience with CDM?
"He who pays the piper calls the tune" springs to mind as the larger Client with more money to spend employs PCs that are able to charge a higher fee and therefore can afford better H&S. On the other hand the Client that has a smaller budget will screw the PC right down, and the subby has to follow suit or lose the work.
Small shop fitting companies do not generally employ a competent H&S officer/adviser in house and rely of bits and pieces of knowledge from "somebody in the office". Or else they employ a company to occasionally visit their projects and produce a report. Not usually a negative report as - paying the piper comes back into play.
I find that companies that employ a health and safety person to visit sites regularly, and act on findings right away the management of H&S is far better than if left to a site foreman who is also a hands on worker.
My opinions.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks for all your comments so far.
In my own experience as a PC we have noticed the following:-
Good points-
PCI information has improved (we regularly query information and have stated quality over quantity every time)
In my experience each party is aware of their responsibilites
Better co-operation during all phases
Bad Points (Room for improvement)-
PC not being given suitable time to plan and manage. The construction phase seems to be squeezed in at the end due to pressing completion dates (we have noticed a spike in overhead utility damage each year around these dates (Same couple of months each year). The root cause seems to be that although it was suggested to divert these services at the design stage, the time taken to divert them pushes the programme beyond the required deadline, we are then asked to work below them and put controls in place (which we do but this causes other problems and obviously is not good enough)
Still too much paperwork involved
Probably lots more good and bad.
Keep them coming and thanks for your help
J
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Rank: Super forum user
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Jay
There are indeed many issues with the CDM Regs which leave a lot to be desired and I will try to frame them a succinctly as possible.
Projects tend to be driven by Clients who often exert an unhealthy influence on the PC with regards to time, planning, design, resources and so on. The PC rarely complains, simply because you don't bite the hand which feeds you. Some of these pressures are then cascaded down the line to sub-contractors and it becomes a vicious circle.
For small projects it could be argued that the CDM Regs are too onerous and costly to implement. For example, projects of £100k or less. I have been involved in a number of small projects which only just qualify for a notifiable project and builders who predominately work in the domestic field find the CDM Regs difficult. Rightly or wrongly, there is a considerable gap in terms of safety between domestic building work and commercial activities, perhaps too large.
Construction work in general is driven by cost. When tendering for projects it is normal practice to offer a contract to the lowest bidder. However, it is not 'rocket science' that those who bids are lower often cut corners on health and safety to save money. The tender process can be insidious, especially when other undesirable machinations are thrown into the process, like the organisation's AFR which is often economical with the truth.
There you have it - Ray.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks Ray, I would have to agree on all points.
In my Opinion the requirement for the Client to give suitable time for design, planning, resources is critical for the PC and, as you say, is often overlooked in the in order to achieve the required output/deadline etc.
The audience for my presentation will include our Client as well as other PC's (from different contracts), Designers and CDM-C's and I therefore need to be careful not to turn it into a Client bashing session as this is not my intention, hence the need for more general PC issues (of which I will give examples if they are also happening to us).
Thanks J
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Rank: Forum user
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I have to agree with BOD (Post 3) If implemented properly and used and understood by all the project team it has massive benefits in ensuring a safe & healthy workplace.
Having advised within in the Construction Sector for PC's and Sub-contractors both in the Public, Private and Utility sectors the implementation of the Regs correctly is cash driven and if the Client are keen and have H&S paramount and are eager to be involved at site level these in general are well run sites. Alternatively if a Client or PC's main objectives is the % of profit the project will bring ultimately the easy savings are made by the reducing H&S or by implementing the minimum.
When a site has an onsite H&S Advisor things are quickly picked up and rectified (i;e finger on the pulse), where smaller projects rely on a consultant visiting sites fortnightly/monthly these do tend to be favourable reports as highlighted earlier (biting the hands that feed you).
I personally feel that some CDMC's contracted by Clients through consultancies do not give projects the required involvement, and by turning up for a monthly meeting with project minutes is adequate or what as been explained to me in the past, that is the package they have paid for, this seems to be more of a problem in the public sector and social housing construction projects as there is little in the way of policing the jobs internally, H&S Advisors with a construction bias.
The implementation of the Regs would also be better if SMSTS was the minimum for site supervision.
Rant and thoughts over.
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Rank: Forum user
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Captain Safety, you echo my thoughts exactly.
I have been a loyal servant within the construction industry for my sins and yet I am constantly finding that cash is king.
When I first read the new CDM regs just before their implementation I thought at last construction will start moving forward and now some 4 years on I'm wondering what went wrong.
I have worked as a CDMC for one of those consultancies that only get you to attend the monthly meeting which is one of the reasons why I was glad to leave them.
The stupid thing is construction safety is easy if we go back to basics but for some strange reason the PC's are demanding RA's up to 6 weeks before you start work, comprehensive method statements that will never get read, and half your life filling out a pre construction questionnaire even though you have a PAS99 system and all the other memberships deemed worthy that week.
I honestly thought CDM would reduce paperwork but it has increased it and god help the SME's who graft hard for peanuts as I wouldn't be surprised if they all end up being wiped out.
I think a construction safety council built up of the guys on the ground needs to be formed and involved in the review of CDM and then the regs be policed once in place to ensure they are adhered to.
Sorry went off on one
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Contractors view of CDM 2007 - pro's and cons
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