Rank: Forum user 
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I’m a little concerned about an agency and what I believe to be rather unethical practices and if anyone else had had similar experiences and what they’ve done about it.
I’m fairly new to this industry and specialise in occ hygiene. I signed-up to an agency to do short-term/contract work. They have contacted me on several occasions and have acted accordingly:-
Upon contacting me they run through a role and then ask me how much I can do the role for (hourly rate). They always refuse to tell me who they have sent my CV to citing that the client wishes to remain confidential.
Next, after a couple of days they get back saying that the client likes my CV however, they have a budget and would I be prepared to work for a bit less. They have always told me that they are on a commission based on the rate given, so its in their interest to get me the best rate possible.
Each time this has gone backwards and forwards to the point that the rate halves or less than half and does not become viable?
I don’t know where my personal information is being sent and never seem to get any work, unless I work for next to nothing (rates have been as low as £8 per hour and you have to provide your own transport travelling to various sites). I worked out that I’d be better off working at the local supermarket – any advice and does this happen a lot?
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Rank: Forum user
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This seems reasonably normal.
The agency you are dealing with will want to sell your services at £X per hour.
They will want to pay you £Y per hour.
Their profit is £X-£Y = £Z per hour.
By driving you hard on your rate (£Y)they increase the differential so make more money. Likewise they are unlikely to tell you what they are selling you for (£X).
They will give you many excuses why your rate is too high - whether true or not, the bottom line is they want your services for as little as possible.
I have done a tiny amount of OH work, so understand some of your cost issues - but you must have a bottom line as to what you will work for (£Y hr). I would establish the terms of the contract i.e.
Man hours cost (£Y) to include everything else - travel, hotel, equipment hire, lab fees, report writing time etc other overheads (PI insurance etc), the details of the actual task requires (what are you sampling for, noise assessments etc, expected time for the job, estimated time to write the follow up report etc). All of this should be factored into your quote for the job.
Or is the work Man hours cost (£Y) then additional charges for travel, hotel, equipment hire etc
As regard private information.
It is probably unlikely that your private information is being sent to loads of companies etc - if they did, their prospective client might contact you directly and hence cut out their costs to the agency.
Likewise the agency probably won't give you the client information until they have to (to go and do the job), to stop you contacting the client directly.
In summary - stick to your guns as regards your hourly rate. (obviously depends to some extent on your personal financial circumstances).
Increase your own profitability by sourcing clients/work direct - to cut out agencies/associate fees.
Try and develop numerous sources of work - other agencies, associate work from h&s consultancies, own clients etc.
I don't really know what the going rate for OH people is, but for safety engineers in the nuclear petro/chem sector - for long term contracts (6mths) can get up to £60/hr in Newcastle [a recent example] - probably more like £45-50hr in some parts of the country, £80/hr Aberdeen. I was approached about a nuclear job in Berkshire for a suggested range of £350-500 per day.
These are the figures the agencies are paying, so what they are charging clients is probably double!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Chambers, I was at my local IOSH Branch meeting a few weeks back and had a conversation with a couple of colleagues I’d not seen in ages. Both told me of the exact same situation about an agency, I’m wondering if it’s the same one – I’ll bet it is.
It seems that they are on a set rate with their clients and deliberately attempt to get the price down for their clients. Most of the clients are either public sector or social housing and so have limited funds. This of course does not excuse the behaviour of the agent in question.
I believe it also breaches the REC code of practice, although I’m unsure if the agent in question is a member or not.
My advice is as follows; NEVER allow an agency to release your details to a third party without knowing who they are sending it to.
Always put the ball firmly in their court regarding price, this type of bartering regarding rates is very unprofessional. Most clients have a good idea of what they can afford and the rates they will pay.
Ensure that they not only confirm the rate but the role in terms of multiple sites and expenses for traveling, otherwise you could end-up out of pocket.
Also, check the payment details; weekly/monthly etc. and get it all in writing!
My colleagues, who have done this type of work, with the agent they mentioned, have waited months to be paid!
Also, get to IOSH meetings and talk to others, that’s how you find out about these types of agencies, poor practices and who to avoid.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thankyou for the advice, I will take on board the coments made.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Agency profit rate %'s for none kudos occupations have been dramatically slashed by the clients with muscle [such clients still have lots of £ for other areas irrespective of this current recession]; kudos occupations e.g. Finance, economists, marketing & similar are still getting very good rates
Its a very fine line as U must stick to your guns as its only U who know what you can survive on but agencies know that if they give too much away about their clients the potential employee will go around them and try to sell their services directly as will many clients steal the candidates
Having worked on all sides [agency manager, client and agency worker] for many years in many industries the only period where all parties in construction especially shared in the profits were, in my personal opinion, the very late 60's through the 70's dropping off dramatically in the early 80's and then ruining down and down and down into the mid later 90's and it has never recovered from the 70's high since nor never will. Noting that all people did not share in the 70's etc wind-falls just some day to day occupations only
We are in for a very long haul with regards to earnings so be prepaired and wherever possible get involved with your occupational groups such as IOSH etc
Best of luck
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Rank: Super forum user
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Unfortunately if you are looking for work you have to send your details out to a lot of people and these do get sent around. I have worked for, through and been set up by different agencies in the past, rates IMO should range from 15 to 25 pounds an hour, the higher end if have your BOHS Diploma and several years experience, even more if you are working in a high risk or specialist environment such as offshore or nuclear.
Likely agency cut is 25% on top of your rate, this has been my experience in the past. Also from moving from temp to perm agency demanded 25% annual wage + to get me off their books.
If you want any details of angencies I have dealth with which were good, or those more likely to have OH positions send me a PM
Des
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Rank: Super forum user
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Any 25% etc on top of your wages will also have to account for any national insurance contributions that have to be made
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Rank: Super forum user
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Totally agree with you Bob, but things are generally starting to pick-up. So I think we should all remember the poor agencies out there when we get busy again!
I also think that some agencies are playing with titles in an attempt to make the post do-able by almost anyone who’s been on a short course. Last year I went to companies that had agency “H&S professionals” who for want of a better word fudged things up so badly that the clients were facing enforcement action.
The problem for me was to convince them of the situation, as they had believed all of the mis-information provided by people who were nowhere near competent to do the task in the first place.
I don’t always blame the clients, as they can be very easily led by some of the agencies currently practising.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Totally agree with you Bob, but things are generally starting to pick-up. So I think we should all remember the poor agencies out there when we get busy again!
I also think that some agencies are playing with titles in an attempt to make the post do-able by almost anyone who’s been on a short course. Last year I went to companies that had agency “H&S professionals” who, for want of a better word, fudged things up so badly that the clients were facing enforcement action.
The problem for me was to convince the clients of the situation, as they had believed all of the mis-information provided by people who were nowhere near competent to do the task in the first place.
I don’t always blame the clients, as they can be very easily led by some of the agencies currently practising.
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Rank: Forum user
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I dont believe a "good" agency exists.
The experience chambers quotes is typical as the job doesnt exist in the first instance.
I challenge anyone to apply for the jobs in SHP or on SHP4 Jobs that are not a direct employer and see if the post comes to fruition. I doubt it.
Hopefully the agency workers directive will alter some of the work practices of these organisations.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Agency workers directive?
Tell me more please.
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Rank: Super forum user
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there are good and bad however there are also some good points noted herein so we should all take note
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