Rank: Forum user
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I have been having a problem with a football sports ground opposite my house. The perimeter fence is far to low and the consequences are that the ball leaves the football ground area and occasionally damages residents vehicles. There is also the issue of the football entering the main road, which causes vehicles to swerve etc.
I contacted my local environmental health department and I was informed that residential damage is a civil matter and therefore nothing could be done. I therefore had to pursue the road safety issue. The Environmental Department checked the club's Risk Assessment which were to be found inadequate and required to be reassessed.
However the Environmental Department informed me back in Jan 2011
"that a risk assessment has been made in accordance with our requirements. It remains for them (the club) to act on this assessment."
This statement leads me to believe that it is up to the club if they want to introduce safety control measures or not. The Environmental Department are not interested to follow up my complaint.
The problem still remains, the club is refusing to construct a higher fence or change the location of the pitch away from the highway and residential property, and the Environmental Department are quite happy on this decision.
I have queried with the Environmental Department on what Risk Safety Measures are in place with regards to the the road safety hazard, but they refuse to answer this question.
I would like to know if Risk Assessments are compulsory for private sports clubs? and if so should all risks have some form of safety measure?
Or perhaps I am being fobbed off both by the club and my Environmental Department?
Any advice would be very much appreciated!
Video clip of some of the problem that I am complaining about below:
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi jazzy
I can understand your disappointment as you should not have to accept the regular leather bombardment, Is the ground privately owned or does the club own the land outright? Point I am trying to make is if you send your evidence to your local council/MP along with letters/signatures from local residents you may get enough leverage to prompt them to act.
I am sure the cost of six or seven extended poles erected with netting would be far outweighed should a serious accident occur as a result of their negligence
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Rank: Forum user
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simonmillward wrote:Hi jazzy
I can understand your disappointment as you should not have to accept the regular leather bombardment, Is the ground privately owned or does the club own the land outright? Point I am trying to make is if you send your evidence to your local council/MP along with letters/signatures from local residents you may get enough leverage to prompt them to act.
I am sure the cost of six or seven extended poles erected with netting would be far outweighed should a serious accident occur as a result of their negligence
The grounds are private and own the land, although the council have a contract for the ground maintenance.
I have been complaining to the council because I originally made the complaint over a year ago. I have had to make a Freedom of Information request to find out exactly what Risk Assessments are in place, probably armed with this information the next step would then be my MP. That is if I am correct in my assumption that all risks should have some form of safety measure.
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Rank: Forum user
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Its a simple case really jazzy, through the activities taking place on the ground they are putting the public and property at risk of injury or damage - lets hope their PL Insurance covers this!!!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Can we get this into some sort of proprtion please. Property damage is a civil matter and nothing to do with safety. The problem of the ball causing an accident however is one to be tackled as the concequences can be quite serious especially if children are involved. Broken windows etc should be followed up with a claim for costs of repair and should be enforced with some vigour. Other types of accidents would be a bit tricky to prove any liability on the football club as they now seem to have cover from the environmental people. Is there any history of accidents (as opposed to civil damage) caused by the ball from the ground as it seems you are challenging the environment departments judgement.
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Rank: Forum user
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I don't believe there have been any records of accidents to date! But I have seen a number of very near misses, and I am sure that it is a matter of time before there is an accident.
So if there have been no actual history of accidents occurring it is then not necessary to have a risk controls implemented on the RA?
I was under the impression that if a risk "was an accident awaiting to happen with a possibility of personal injury" the risk should be classified to be a HIGH risk and should be acted upon under the RA.
The feedback that I have been getting is that this is an accident awaiting to happen.
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Rank: Super forum user
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jazzey the problem is you will need to prove there uis a problem before many organisations will accept they have to do something. I'm afraid you probably have very little hard evidence that there is a problem. You say the riskl is HIGH but there is no record of any accidents to support this, you need to get to the basis of such a claim with PROOF of the risk especially since the Environmental people have stated that the risk is acceptable. Get the proof and take it from there.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Some good advice already given and not wishing to repeat it I will add some pertinent points. The issue of a football leaving the grounds is similar to other sports, most notably golf and cricket. These have types of cases are normally civil issues via the tort of negligence. Always difficult to deal with due in part to the social utility of sports v the nuisance/safety aspects.
My golf club had a similar issue with a local resident complaining that golf balls were damaging his parked car. I advised the golf club not to keep paying out for repairs, but rather ask the resident to consider putting his car under a porch. The course was built before his house and hence he took the risk knowingly (volenti non fit injuria) when purchasing his house - no more was heard.
In Bolton v Stone a cricket ball was hit out of the ground and injured a member of the public adjacent to her house. The Judge ruled in favour of the cricket club on the basis that is was a one-off incident and therefore not reasonably foreseeable. However, in Miller v Jackson a similar incident occurred and due to the frequency of cricket balls leaving the ground the cricket club were found liable. Civil law is very unpredictable.
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Rank: Forum user
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bob shillabeer wrote:jazzey the problem is you will need to prove there uis a problem before many organisations will accept they have to do something.
Thanks for the information. I posted a video clip at the end of my first post which clearly shows that there is a problem with the current fencing which is causing a hazard to traffic
So if what you are saying and the Environmental Dept are happy that this particular risk is acceptable, there is no need to pursue the club to introduce a risk safety measure on the RA?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Jazz
The problem with the RA is that to a degree it is subjective - you can write an RA to conclude almost what you want, until that is, there is a serious incident which the RA did not address or properly control. Therefore reliance on an RA is not particularly useful from your perspective.
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Rank: Forum user
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But surely if the club and the LA are aware of one particular risk i.e road safety issues due to inadequate fencing. There should be some kind of a safety measure introduced? which should also be recorded on the RA.
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Rank: Super forum user
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True but, assuming there is already a fence, even though not high enough to totally eradicate footballs leaving the ground - you have a control measure. Whether it is adequate is another matter. There is no requirement to prevent ALL risks regardless of the nature. The term to control risk to 'so far is reasonably practicable' is the benchmark and the football club could argue that is what they have done.
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Rank: Super forum user
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You point is spot on Ray. The football club have conducted a risk assessment that the LA have accepted as adequate. I assume this is based upon the type of road and the frequency that a ball goes outside the ground concerned. The road is probably 30mph limited with good visibility so the true risk is quite low as most teams play only once or twice a week during the winter period so the balls enters the road during a two hour spell usually on a Saturday afternoon or a Wednesday evening. The main gripe I believe is the ball going into the posters front garden rather than any road risk. Try going to the football club and reach a deal to try and reduce the number of instances when the ball comes onto your property.
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Rank: Super forum user
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In the Football Assocaiation "Guide to indoor and outdoor areas for small sided football, mini-soccer and futsal" there is information regarding fencing in Section 5 from page 27. I could not trace quickly information for a standard sized pitch, but you could contact the FA if they have guidelines etc. My view is that that the FA guidelines would be a starting point for "reasonably practicable" and "suitable & sufficient"
http://www.thefa.com/Get...lSidedPitches_notes.ashx
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Rank: Forum user
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bob shillabeer wrote: teams play only once or twice a week during the winter period so the balls enters the road during a two hour spell usually on a Saturday afternoon or a Wednesday evening. The main gripe I believe is the ball going into the posters front garden rather than any road risk. Try going to the football club and reach a deal to try and reduce the number of instances when the ball comes onto your property.
The grounds are also used by the public, there can be up to 40 incidents per week. My main gripe is the damage that it is causing, recently had £600 worth of damage to my car. But I am genuinely concerned of the road safety aspect, road visibility has nothing to do with the problem, when the ball leaves the grounds it just appears from nowhere i,e over the fence.
How an earth can you reach a deal with the club? The fence is far to low and the only way to stop this is a higher fence or relocate the football pitch to a different area.
I don't want to sound too negative but the impression I am getting from this board. Is that there are no safety issues regarding this fence and the club has acted appropriately in it's decision of not to do anything with regards to the road safety issue.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Jazzy
I think that Ray's posts have given you a good steer. You are of course right that the intention of a RA is to foresee the accident before it happens, rather than wait for it to happen, and in that respect I have some sympathy with your 'predicament'.
However, I am also mindful that although you have some to the board seeking 'safety' advice you candidly admit that your MAIN gripe is the damage to your car. I can't help but feel that you may have slightly shot yourself in the foot!
If it isn't too late, I suggest that a polite, non confrontational and reasoned approach to the football club is the most likely course of action to bear fruit. Unfortunately confrontation, tends to lead people into entrenched positions which can be difficult for both parties to climb out of.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thank you all for your helpful replies.
I have always pointed out that there were two issues.
Residential property damage, of which I have acknowledged that I know is a civil matter of which I am not seeking any advice.
The Road Safety issue is a genuine concern. I live opposite the grounds and I do not want any kind of accident occurring.
I was genuinely after some advice regarding Risk Assessments, which I was lead to believe was the only legal course of action that I could take to enforce the club to implement a safety measure of some kind. But unfortunately I have misread what Risk Assessments entail, but your information has helped me in a greater understanding of Risk Assessments.
Please consider this thread is now closed!
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Rank: Forum user
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The first question you need to ask is: Is the club an employer? If not, as I suspect, then there is no legal requirement to assess risks under the Health and Safety AT WORK Act and subordinate legislation.
It is also wasting yours and the Council's time with FOI requests - they have very little control over the activities which take place on the playing fields.
The quickest and most efficient way to get action would be to initiate the Small Claims process. Once the club's insurance company becomes aware of the claim a fence will go up by the end of the week!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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listen to Ian
Additionally there is only one person who will act to manage the site if that one person is at some sort of personal risk and that is the owner of the land. Find them and act accordingly [the word 'act' is the most important point here] anything else will not get U anywhere
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Rank: Super forum user
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This as someone said is a civil matter. You need to talk to a solicitor. If the club have damaged your car and this has cost you money you should be able to sue them for negligence. If the balls regularly come over and disrupt your "quiet enjoyment" of your property then this a Nuisance. If it effects more than just you it is a public Nuisance and your local council should be taking the lead especially if they are putting roads at risk, then the Highways authority should be contacted.
What you should be aiming to obtain is an injunction banning them for doing this.
This is the appropriate approach rather than a simple H&S one.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Suggest you act collectively with your neighbours: petition, residents association etc. Many Local Authorities treat such groups with much more respect than the individual and may act as arbiter between the Club and the Residents Association.
Fence is an option, but I feel turning the pitch 90 degrees would reduce this issue hugely - at no great cost.
To offer you some sense of proportion, there are a great many long-established senior football clubs with grounds immediately adjacent to the highway and with no fence. My own Town's Starks Park (Raith Rovers) is an obvious example. Balanced against that, there are other senior clubs (Montrose? Brechin?) with residential properties behind the goal who HAVE installed high netting. Whether this is as a result of complaint or merely being a good neighbour, I couldn't say.
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