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I have a situation where due to cut backs class sizes are to be increased in the home economic rooms which currently have 8 cookers in one room and 6 cookers in the second room.
What is the optimum number of students you would recommend in each room in good times? Irrespective that my current RA/MS states one student to one cooker.
What is the optimum number of students you would recommend in each room in these bad times?
Are there any education guidelines out there because I can find nothing through google?
Much obliged for any answers / advice.
Rich
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rish, your current risk assesment states that there is one pupil to one cooker, how good is your risk assessment and what does it say about multiple use? What is prepared to use the cookers as far as I'm concerned they may have more than one cooking ring often of different sizes and heat output therefore how can they be used as teaching aids so students get the right heat etc? This is far more complicated than your posting suggests therefore more info is needed, I sugest you look at it carefullt before simply asking for help as it is a difficut situation that needs careful thought.
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Bob - I take your point/s but when a headmaster decrees that more students will be in a class and ignores the RA/MS then I have to try and help the teacher concerned.
My RA/MS was quite adequate for when there was one student to a cooker. I now have to look at the risks if more than one student is using the same cooker. Most times all the students are preparing the same food but I take your point re: different sized rings and heat output etc.
Are their any guidelines produced anywhere? Anyone out there in education who is or has experienced a similar situation.
Rich
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Hello rich777, I have a Code of Practice document that gives some information on maximum class sizes (and other H&S related info) for Design & Tech classes (inluding foods), though does not give specific pupil:oven ratios. PM me if you want more details/copy. Paul.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Rich,
I am a bit confused as to the "ownership" of the RA.
In our LA it is the Head, along with any specialist teachers that conduct the RA's. We merely provide the framework; training & any "hand-holding" should it be required.
Apologies if you are school based & I am making incorrect assumptions!
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Rank: Super forum user
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I an rather concerned that not just this specific post but ithers have started not because of safety concerns but the tightening of finaces immosed by the Government has led to some sectors having to tighten thier belts. Class sizes are growing simply because the money available has become less. Therefore head teachers have to put more pupils in each class resulting in a greater stress on the equipment available. The position of one cooker per pupil seems to have gone to two per cooker (and in some cases even greater). Is it not a case that the head teacher should cut the number of puils taught the subject thereby keeping the ration the same or am I looking at it through rose tinted glasses?
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Rank: Guest
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Zyggy - The ownership of the RA/MS is fair and squarely in the Head of Home Economics (HE) lap and her one specialist teacher. I make the suggestions, give advice when asked and the managers take it or leave it. I am lucky that in the main my advice is accepted. The Head of HE has come to me for advice today after being told by the headmaster that from next term her class sizes will increase. Therefore I am seeking a way forward.
Bob - there is always a solution and I will not have kids deprived of an education in whatever subject. I will find a safe workable solution (indeed my wife has given me some good advice - she worked in a school for 12 years). Apparently it's all about cooking times; good supervision and common sense.
Rich
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Rank: Super forum user
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There you go rich, advise from someone who has experience of the business concerned. Why didn't you ask your wife in the first place.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rich, sorry for the confusion, it's just that in two of the postings you referred to "my RA's".
Is there any scope for increasing the number of cookers per room, or are you already at optimum capacity; or can the actual cooking be done in "shifts", i.e. one set doing some "theory" whilst the other one actually cooks & then switch over?
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It's been a while since I was invlved with this but I think this is covered in BS4163 (from memory).
I've not heard 'domestic science' used for a while. Don't they call it 'food technology' or somesuch, now?
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- - - - and I think it might also be worth having a word with CLEAPSS.
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Perhaps you could teach them to cook salads and the likes or maybe sandwiches. To be serious though - I would think that the age and maturity of the students could be a big factor.
My missis was head of home econimics and now teaches adults to cook but uses secondary school rooms to do so, I will ask her when she gets back with my pudding.
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Rank: Super forum user
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What has happened to education & training these days? Are we supposed to be educating and training or are we not! Being hands-on with suitable management and facilitation close to hand is the only way to go as looking-in whilst 'others' are cooking etc is not education!
As already proposed by others undertake a good suitable & sufficient risk assessment [job safety analysis is a great tool to use to suport the activity but alas it's not being included in the act of RA as it should these days] and go from there. And as already been said its also about adequate supervision and organisation because U can have >1 person at a cooker provided the class is properly managed and remember U can only do what you can do; the head and the governing body make the end decisions and if they want to take on the risk without a full appreciation of the situation then let them
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Interesting timing! I'm about to do some hand holding in this area too.
Hopefully will get some guidance from the Design and Technology Association (http://www.data.org.uk/) and our version of CLEAPSS.
One of our debates has been on who is responsible for the Risk Assessments - the employer (the Council), the Senior Manager on site (the Head Teacher) or the manager supervising the activity (the Principal Teacher)
In my mind the person(PT) with knowledge of the activity should carry out the RAs and 'own' them, their manager (HT) should ensure that they are done and the employer (Council) should have a system of checking (auditing) to ensure that the Council's arrangements are being consistently applied to the required standard.
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Rank: Super forum user
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You may get your answer in Building Bulletin 81 which covers the design of school accommodation as far DT and Food Tech is concerned. Also look at BS4163 and CLEAPSS document DL79. Hope this helps.
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Rank: Super forum user
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the 'controller' of the undertaking is the responsible person for undertaking the RA's. That is not the distant LA/church etc, it is the 'on site' senior person
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