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Sinead  
#1 Posted : 01 April 2011 15:13:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sinead

I have an employee who is out of work with lower back pain. She had a CT scan in her own country (she's a foreign national) and the report indicates 'arthritis of the facet joints'.

I have sent her to three different occupational doctors and physiotherapists and all of them have stated that her condition will not affect her ability to do her job. On that basis, I have refused to pay her under the company sick pay scheme.

The Union has taken up her case and had a meeting with the HR dept. (which I wasn't involved in), the conclusion of which was to send the employee to an orthopaedic consultant for another opinion.

My question is: how far does a company have to go to prove that an employee is fit for work?
Steve Sedgwick  
#2 Posted : 01 April 2011 15:32:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Sedgwick

Someone in a more senior position should speak to your HR dept if you were excluded from this meeting.

I presume that you involved HR in earlier meetings.
Steve
jay  
#3 Posted : 01 April 2011 15:49:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

It is obvious that without input from a consultant ( in this case an orthopaedic consultant) regarding the EXTENT of the condition (it is commonly known as osteoporosis of the spine), it is difficult to determine the ability to work based on the type/nature of work.

It depends how your occupational health doctors/pyhsitherapists came to the decision that the employee is fit for work as they are not experts in specific branches of medicine such as orthopaedics. It also depends upon whether they had credible information (with consent of the employee) from the employees GP who in turn had referred them to a consultant etc. I would also not generally consider physiotherapists as experts in orthopaedics.

KieranD  
#4 Posted : 01 April 2011 15:52:37(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Sinead

If you look up law reports on claima for back injuries and other forms of musculo-skeletal disordrs and pains, you can see how fraught the issues are.

The opinions of two or more orthopaedic consultants or rheumatologists are commonly regarded as
evidence (rarther than 'proof') that an employee is 'fit for work' ; the challenge is establish common ground between them.

As the employer's adviser, you are in a positiion to advise management, the union and the employee based on available evidence but you risk exceeding your knowledge base if you go beyond opinions of medical specialists.

One of those areas where patience can be difficult but prdent in the fullness of time.
Canopener  
#5 Posted : 01 April 2011 15:55:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

A few things strike me.

You say "out of work". Can I assume you mean that she is 'in work' but off sick?
Does she have a certificate saying that she is unfit for work? If not, then I would have thought that you can reasonably assume that she is. I don't think that you can pay SSP without an appropriate FMED3, and I would argue that it would be reasonable to withhold contractual sick pay on the same basis.
Why are YOU (H&S) withholding sick pay, surely that is a decision for HR/payroll?

Just my Friday afternoon ramblings.
bob youel  
#6 Posted : 01 April 2011 16:07:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

"I have refused to pay her under the company sick pay scheme": Why are you responsible for this area? I would say that production [via HR thereafter] should be responsible for this area

Sinead  
#7 Posted : 01 April 2011 16:19:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sinead

Just to clarify, yes the employee is 'in work' but out sick and has been for about six months now.

As per company procedure, it is common practise to investigate all sick notes esp. those which may affect an employee's ability to work. In this case, the employee's GP had stated that she was not fit to work due to back pain.

After the company had sent the employee to the company doctor who said that her back pain would not affect her ability to work, the employee went to her native country and got a CT scan done and a letter which says that she has arthritis and a recommendation for her to have surgery.

Her GP in this country has recommeded physio and painkillers but not surgery. More further meetings with occupational doctors plus physiotherapists have followed and all have come to similiar conclusions regarding work.

All parties in this country have requested that the employee seek a second opinion on the need for surgery but she is not willing to co-operate.

The union & HR meeting went ahead as they had 'forgotten' to invite me!

And sorry, I didn't mean 'me' personnally withholding the employee's sick pay, I meant 'the company'.


KieranD  
#8 Posted : 03 April 2011 08:55:57(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Is it perhaps the case that the managment of the company don't share the view that Joan (Sinead) of Arc is the most appopriate model of intervention in the management of the occupational health of this employee at this time?
bkjeffrey  
#9 Posted : 03 April 2011 11:08:01(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bkjeffrey

You must do everything reasonably practicable to ensure the health, safety and wellbeing of your people and this should be reflected in your person orientated policies and procedures.

You have already consulted professionals in their field who have advised you on the condition your worker is suffering from, and, what work duties they can reasonably be expected to undertake. If you then advise your senior management of these issues they will take reasonable action, as per your polices and procedures, in dealing with the individual concerned.

It would appear that you have fulfilled your obligations under your polices and procedures and its now a senior management decision from now on.

In my experience its not unusual for the Union to work for the best for their member, unsurprisingly.

As it seems its now agreed, between your company and the Union, that a further professional practitioner will evaluate your workers condition, and ability to carry out their duties as per their contract, the result of the next consultation should be binding and the employee will then have to submit to the findings of the consultation, and actions and decisions will then progress from there.


Hope this helps.
Fletcher  
#10 Posted : 03 April 2011 14:37:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Fletcher

My last company paid 13 weeks "sick pay" per year and it was amazing how many people recovered from debillitating illness when they were going to go onto SSP only. It was also funny how their illness re-occurred when a new pay year started.
I am not commenting on this case just a comment on my last company and the difficulty they experienced with people who played the system.
I also found that certain GP's disagreed constantly with both our OH Nurse and our OH Physician as to whether a person could work or not.

Take Care
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