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Ken Slack  
#1 Posted : 12 April 2011 15:57:10(UTC)
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Ken Slack

Hi All, I have just read a CPS document that states that the 'reverse burden of proof', does not relate to S40 in relation to S7 offences, and that a prosecution would have to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that an individual had breached S7 (reasonable care for himself or others). Was it only me that didn't know this, is it common knowledge.. http://www.cps.gov.uk/le...ficers_and_firefighters/[12/04/2011 14:33:02]
Ken Slack  
#2 Posted : 12 April 2011 15:58:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

SteveL  
#3 Posted : 12 April 2011 16:23:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

Ken Slack  
#4 Posted : 12 April 2011 16:26:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

stevel wrote:
Steve, I saw this many moons ago, your link states that the 'accused' to prove (reverse burden), but the CPS document states otherwise
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 12 April 2011 16:41:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I am not sure what all this really means. If a member of the emergency services risks their own life during a rescue I cannot manage any circumstances where a prosecution under section 7 would have occurred, even before this ‘new’ guidance came in The prosecuting authorities were always suppose to look at the whether the prosecution was in the public interest and with high expectation of success. So this sort of thing never happened This is just the government trying to make it look like they are doing something about ‘elf ‘nd safety’ when they are reality simply reinstating existing policy. A sop to the Daily Mail perhaps?
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 12 April 2011 17:52:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I agree with A Kurdziel, when I read this nonsense the first time via the HSE link I thought it was a joke! As for the S7 no reverse burden of proof, I had never really given the matter any consideration. I had always thought that all criminal law was subject to the rubric 'beyond reasonable doubt' and despite the s40 qualification. Not sure what to make of the CPS notice, particularly as the HSE prosecute health and safety offences and the CPS only get involved when there is a fatality. So, are the CPS saying that if a heroic act results in a fatality, it is 'very unlikely' they will prosecute the individual for a s7 offence - I'm sure the victim's loved ones will be very grateful indeed!
Ken Slack  
#7 Posted : 13 April 2011 09:14:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

Thanks Ray, will the HSE use the same criteria as the CPS, in that under S40/S7 the reverse burden of proof does not apply, and that the beyond reasonable doubt will be the standard?
Alan Haynes  
#8 Posted : 13 April 2011 11:10:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

Gents You appear to be getting hung up on S7 duties and whether the S40 defence applies. S40 only applies where the qualifications “practicable and reasonably practicable” occur. S7 requires an employee to take reasonable care. So the qualification cannot apply. Case law in support is Deary v Mansion Hide Upholstery Limited 1983 (I think). Whether CPS would take a prosecution - that is S33 1a clause…. All criminal proceedings have to prove beyond reasonable doubt.
RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 13 April 2011 11:27:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hi Alan, have you read the CPS press release? It clearly states: 'Unlike in other health and safety offences, there is no issue of "reasonable practicability" and no reverse burden of proof under S40 HSWA in respect of S7 HSWA offences. The prosecution must prove beyond reasonable doubt that the acts of the individual were such they amount to the person not taking "reasonable care" for the health and safety of himself or others. In the exceptional circumstances under consideration, a police officer or firefighter may act in a way which shows a considerable disregard for their own safety.' I have just communicated with an associate, a well known H&S lawyer, and he confirms what I suspected. The CPS press release is nothing more than a smokescreen [my words] and in criminal law cases have to be 'proved beyond reasonable doubt' is a standard requirement.
ptaylor14  
#10 Posted : 13 April 2011 12:44:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

What does reverse burden of proof mean??
RayRapp  
#11 Posted : 13 April 2011 13:07:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

'In any proceedings for an offence under any of the relevant statutory provisions consisting of a failure to comply with a duty or requirement to do something so far as is practicable or so far as is reasonably practicable, or to use the best practicable means to do something, it shall be for the accused to prove (as the case may be) that it was not practicable or not reasonably practicable to do more than was in fact done to satisfy the duty or requirement, or that there was no better practicable means than was in fact used to satisfy the duty or requirement.' In other words, the prosecution need only show that there was a breach of h&s law, normally by virtue of an accident or injury, and the accused must show what they did in order to prevent an accident or injury.
djupnorth  
#12 Posted : 18 April 2011 09:12:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
djupnorth

I agree with Ray, A section 7 duty is one of strict liability to take "Reasonable Care" and so section 40 does not apply. If the prosecution can (beyond reasonable doubt) prove the individual failed to take reasonable care, the offence is proved (i.e. no mens rea is required). The CPS is therefore correct. I hope this helps. Regards. DJ
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