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firesafety101  
#1 Posted : 18 April 2011 13:26:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I have often mentioned a comparison between the average risk assessment and fire risk assessment and stated that - if you get it wrong a risk assessment can affect a few people whereas a fire risk assessment will affect many. Just look at the scrap yard fire at the MI junction and how many people were and still are affected. Hundreds of thousands in different ways? I'm not criticising anyone here just looking to prove a point about the consequences of getting a fire risk assessment wrong.
MB1  
#2 Posted : 18 April 2011 13:35:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MB1

Chris, I'm sure the insurance industry are watching this very closely and will be updating their criteria for risk assessing. Will be interesting to follow through as to what the fire authorities disclose when the embers have died down!
firesafety101  
#3 Posted : 18 April 2011 14:23:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

MB1 please note I am not suggesting the fire risk assessment was not suitable and sufficient, it may have been a good one, you may be right suggesting insurance companies will be looking at this, and I await the final result with interest. The authorities are looking at scrap yard locations now, especially underneath road bridges. Back to the fra - I wonder if the road bridge was considered as part of the potential for damage?
Phil Grace  
#4 Posted : 18 April 2011 15:02:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

Did catch end of radio news bulletin that said there would be an investigation about wisdom of siting such facilities i.e. metal recycling yards under motorway bridges. But maybe there is another question: Which was there first? Phil
David Bannister  
#5 Posted : 18 April 2011 15:11:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

There are many railway arches which have a collection of various bottled gases, including acetylene. Traditional wisdom is that the structure is so massive that the largest fire is unlikely to do significant harm to the viability of the railway. Motorway bridges are of course different, being built to Elizabethan rather than Victorian engineers' specifications. Nevertheless, the experience has until now been apparenly good although I fully expect the "all-knowing after the event" media to have plenty more to say. Insurers can make their own decisions on risk acceptance based on what their own assessors tell them and their appetite for risk.
messyshaw  
#6 Posted : 18 April 2011 18:22:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

I had to laugh at Phillip Hammond's reply to Andrew 'tabloid' Neil when cornered, when he promised a review of what sites are used for under motorways. Mmmm.... I doubt whether any of us will see the results of the review, as it's political spin and the Govt will hope everyone's forgotten about the fire after the royal wedding and more disturbing images from Libya! As for the FRA - I cannot see how any FRA would have prevented the damage to the bridge - especially if this proves to be arson. I for one would have considered motorway drivers and recorded them as relevant persons. However, other than good housekeeping - including care with the cylinders, I don't expect to have made any specific provision to safeguard those on the M1 above. If anything, those on the motorway are slightly better off that those living nearby if an acetylene bottle exploded. The damage to the bridge is perhaps not within the brief of the FRA which really focusses on life safety rather than 'building' protection. I would guess that insurance rates for properties with high fire loadings under such bridges will rocket as a result of this fire. Money grabbing insurance companies are bound to include premises within railway arches in this price hike.
Whitehouse28112  
#7 Posted : 21 April 2011 15:05:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Whitehouse28112

I'm sure I heard that they had stored vessels of cooking oil under the bridge. Just as a side line!!!
stevie40  
#8 Posted : 21 April 2011 16:48:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40

stuff4blokes wrote:
Insurers can make their own decisions on risk acceptance based on what their own assessors tell them and their appetite for risk.
Agreed, insurers won't be too bothered by the M1 incident because no claims are likely to arise from third parties. Highways Agency might have a claim for infrastructure repair costs if they can prove negligence, but since this fire looks to have been arson, that route may not be open to them. Road users, delayed by the fire certainly would not have a valid claim. Railways on the other hand are a different matter. Train operating companies and Network Rail can claim for lost profits from the line and operations on the line if it has to be shut following a fire. If negligence can be shown, these claims can be quite substantial.
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